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Is it better to run 1x4 or 2x2 TWC? Im currently making this list and and Im unsure if adding 1 additional KP and making the squads easier to kill is worth the advantage of running each squad seperate for more targets/manueverbility/option to assault different targets. Does anyone have experience with this?

Option 1:
Wolf Lord, TWC, TH/SS, Saga of the Bear
Wolf Lord, TWC, WC/SS, Saga of the Warrior Born
TWC #1 TH/SS
TWC #2 SS
TWC #3 Meltabombs
TWC #4 CCW/BP

or

Option 2:
Wolf Lord, TWC, TH/SS, Saga of the Bear
TWC #1 TH/SS
TWC #2 CCW/BP

Wolf Lord, TWC, WC/SS, Saga of the Warrior Born
TWC#1 WC/SS
TWC #2 CCW/BP

I prefer large groups. Smaller ones could easily fall prey to large CC units like orks

Well, I have no experience AS space wolves, but I will say this:

One large group would be easy pickings.

Even 1 TWC could destroy a tank or combat res. an infantry squad, having four in one unit makes it easy for low AP/high shot units to pick them off easy. Large blasts put more low AP (most likely) wounds out on you.

Two units would let should provide the redundancy for survival.

I don't like non-fearless deathstars, as they can easily be driven off the board by some armies.

I would run several small groups of thundercav. They are punchy enough to bully most squads alone, especially the lords can take on pretty much anything. One-wolf squads can be easily hidden and should work out fine as counter-attack or fireman units

I would be really pleased if my opponents would run tiny units of thunderwolves because it would make them much easier for me to handle. One burst of melta/plasma or one assault squad can take out two thunderwolves pretty readily.

The units of 4 with each model equipped with different wargear for wound allocation shenanigans--those are really hard to beat. You have to put a minimum of 5 wounds that stick to deny them even a few of their 20 or so assault attacks.

And I would love it if my opponent spent 800 points on a unit that I can scare off the board with a PBS or FotD libby.

There were Thunderwolves at the hill where the crucifixion happened?!

That's a shocker!

I'm so stunned, I don't know if I can answer your question!

[/sarcastic spelling nazi]

As Illumini has indicated, there are a few things out there which can more easily prey on a single unit; Psyker Battle Squads in particular.

That being said, in general I agree with Flavius. A single bigger squad makes much better use of wound allocation shenanigans, and IME is significantly tougher to deal with. The Wolf Lords can always split off later in the game if you need to engage multiple targets.

I'm going to tell the truth behind the ThunderCav, most of the time it will take 5-6 turns to get rid of a fully Cav unit. Here the best way i equip my Lords or Battle Leaders.

Lord/TM/Runic Armour/SS/Frost Weapon/Melta Bomb/Wolftail/ and the 2 little wovles and Saga of the Bear or Warrior Born

The main thing about the Wolftail is that you will be able to attack anything with WS on a 3 plus, this includes Dreadnought your melta bomb will hit on three

Now I usually run around with Wolf Lord and 2 Battle Leader deck out and a 4 ThunderCav unit with ThunderHammer/SS and the SS/Melta Bomb usually that a total of 21 wounds.

Remember that Wolves best fight in "Packs" and not individual. Your lord or battle leaders will have a total of 16 (that if you group them together),power weapons attack in CC that wideout most units.

Most armies can't deal will that much hate on the board.

I am not sure about Dreads and grenades, you will to check the wording on that one. Some people would call shenanigans on that one I think.

I say 2 of 2.

svendrex wrote: I am not sure about Dreads and grenades, you will to check the wording on that one. Some people would call shenanigans on that one I think.

The attack does not use ws so it is very debateable.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:most of the time it will take 5-6 turns to get rid of a fully Cav unit.

But...

You...

How...

Umm...



5-6 turns for one unit?

4 lords and max TWC wouldn't last that long.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:I'm going to tell the truth behind the ThunderCav, most of the time it will take 5-6 turns to get rid of a fully Cav unit.

*If your army is made up of only gretchin

I like Option 2, however I'd take fenrisian wolves w/ the lords, hence adding a couple xtra wounds

two units of two would be my prefered way. I used to run mine as one squad and found my oppenent would just throw everything he has shooting wise at that one squad making them weaker or dead beofore I could use them. Since running two squads it has been better as the opponent has to split accross two units. Meaning there is usualy enough thunder woves to do something when you get there.

Also if you list is going to fall apart if your wolves die your gonna wan't a spare sqaud if one gets gunned down.

The way you take them should depend on what you plan to use them for, if you plan to use their speed to harass non-cc oriented units then 2x2 is the way to go. However if you plan to use them as a hammer unit or as the foil to an opponents Heavy CC units then 1X4 is the way to go. Also PBS and FotD is less scary when you have wolf tail talismans and and a rune priests canceling psyker ablilities.

Now as far as this silly notion that a full squad is easy to blast off the table whoever said that has obviously never faced a tooled up squad of thunderwolves with stormshields (OP's squad has 4). Spread them out line abreast your big bad templates will only hit 3 wolves at most, causing 3 wounds, 2 bounce off the shields congratulations you have dealt 1 of the necessary 9 to even start pulling models, the wolves are on you next turn have fun. If you dedicate all your anti-tank to TWC then the rhinos are rolling up to deposit GH squads with meltaguns into your line. Bottom line kitted properly big squads are hard to deal with, not impossible but hard.

Aftersong wrote:The way you take them should depend on what you plan to use them for, if you plan to use their speed to harass non-cc oriented units then 2x2 is the way to go. However if you plan to use them as a hammer unit or as the foil to an opponents Heavy CC units then 1X4 is the way to go. Also PBS and FotD is less scary when you have wolf tail talismans and and a rune priests canceling psyker ablilities.

Now as far as this silly notion that a full squad is easy to blast off the table whoever said that has obviously never faced a tooled up squad of thunderwolves with stormshields (OP's squad has 4). Spread them out line abreast your big bad templates will only hit 3 wolves at most, causing 3 wounds, 2 bounce off the shields congratulations you have dealt 1 of the necessary 9 to even start pulling models, the wolves are on you next turn have fun. If you dedicate all your anti-tank to TWC then the rhinos are rolling up to deposit GH squads with meltaguns into your line. Bottom line kitted properly big squads are hard to deal with, not impossible but hard.

Just keep in mind that the PBS units power has a 36 inch range and the Rune priest is 24. the talisman is probably the best save you'll get when facing IG. Not to mention that PBS in chimera can move 12 and fire off its power since its not a shooting attack. That means its easy to get out of rune priests range. Also keep in mind that if your facing IG they will probably also have Manticore's that instant kill your Thunderwolves on any failed saves. Sure you can put some on the lords for the 2+ save but is it really worth the risk?

Yes the PBS and manticores need to be considered however they are still hardly autowin as there are more than enough general strategies to prevent that combo going off. In addition to the fact that the aformentioned combo is about the only good way to quickly deal with this squad, everyone else suffers horribly.

Zonder wrote:
Option 1:
Wolf Lord, TWC, TH/SS, Saga of the Bear
Wolf Lord, TWC, WC/SS, Saga of the Warrior Born
TWC #1 TH/SS
TWC #2 SS
TWC #3 Meltabombs
TWC #4 CCW/BP

This is the better way to run them. Two small units are just too fragile no matter the number of SS you take or the fact they have 2 wounds and are T5. 3 TWC per unit simple isn't enough. Then again I have never been a huge proponent of MSUs in any 40k list except maybe SW GH or BA RAS when Razorspam is involved.

Go with 2x2. While 4 TWC running around would be good, its not very hard hitting unless at least two hit a squad at once.

First off, I appreciate all of the advice as its given me a few things to think of that I had not thought of. I'm think I will end up having 2 drop pods with MM Dreads and 2 with Troops or 3 Rhinos with 2 Long Fang squads running up the field with them. I know nothing is certan when it comes down to dice but it seems to me that either choice is decent.

PBS - Im not too worried about these guys as I bring plenty of long and short range AT. As well as the TWC has ATSKNF so even if they ran one turn they could regroup with no restrictions the next turn correct?

Manticore - This is the one Im more worried about as there are a few of them in my local metagame. I do have a EW lord that could take a shot or two if I ran them as the 1x4 squad. Maybe I should add the 2 Fresnian wolves to each lord as suggested. If I added the wolves would it make more sense for 2x2 since the wolves could be used to soak up the ID wounds?

PBS - Im not too worried about these guys as I bring plenty of long and short range AT. As well as the TWC has ATSKNF so even if they ran one turn they could regroup with no restrictions the next turn correct?

Yes, but cavalry run 3d6 I believe. thats anywhere from 3 to 18 inches of running. Depending on where you are, you may very well end up running off the board with an unlucky roll.

Just something to consider.

EDIT: Damn... I forgot I was looking through old threads... Go me...