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Made in ca
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Vancouver, BC

Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Canadian 5th wrote:
Mining a planet for its resources removes those resources now? I was unaware that this was how mining worked, thanks for enlightening me!

It does if you use them to construct these habitat ships of yours. The Imperium uses planets for other resources besides raw materials as well. Like food production.

Grow food on the habitats. Bonus points for using 3D plots and taking advantage of microgravity.

Tyran wrote:Yes, I would like to see the math of how such orbital mechanics are solved.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a11098/dyson-sphere/

https://www.space.com/38031-how-to-build-a-dyson-swarm.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere

ccs wrote:I want to see him do the math on disassembling a planet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-pit_mining

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drilling_and_blasting

Do these, just on a planet-spanning scale. It would be slow with modern technology, but given that the IoM has vastly better tech than we do this is even easier for them. Bonus points for setting up mostly automated mines in otherwise uninhabited system and shipping the mining output via stl transport ships to avoid warp issues.

Gadzilla666 wrote:I want an explanation on how we could do it and then assemble it back together as ships using modern technology. After that maybe we can do cold fusion or cure cancer.

You mine the resources and refine them. Possibly at the mine itself if you're turning the entire planet into a factory designed to mine and refine itself. With current tech it would be slow and we'd want to start by mining Mars, Venus, or an NEO so we have a habitable place to live while we set this all up. These aren't issues for the 40k universe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/25 23:24:44


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

You're overlooking a key concept - that of sedentary vs nomadic lifestyle. You're basically arguing that the Imperium should go nomadic when their entire social structure and technology is built around sedentary life. Their whole ethos and outlook on life is grounded in the idea of a single static home.

A home world, a home town, a home itself. Things built and rooted in a fixed position within the universe. From that they draw not just their own livelihood, but their whole identity and way of life.



The Eldar needed the birth of Slaanesh to abandon their sedentary life; and even then many of them still settled upon worlds (Exodites).

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex



Mexico



Your source is talking about dismantling the entire inner solar system.

That is far beyond the resources of the IoM, we are talking about sextillions of metric tons of material, while the IoM struggles to build ships that only mass a few billion metric tons.
   
Made in ca
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Vancouver, BC

 Overread wrote:
You're overlooking a key concept - that of sedentary vs nomadic lifestyle. You're basically arguing that the Imperium should go nomadic when their entire social structure and technology is built around sedentary life. Their whole ethos and outlook on life is grounded in the idea of a single static home.

A home world, a home town, a home itself. Things built and rooted in a fixed position within the universe. From that they draw not just their own livelihood, but their whole identity and way of life.

Your point? They can and should do this because it's the smart choice given the threats they face.

Tyran wrote:
Your source is talking about dismantling the entire inner solar system.

Yes, yes it is.

That is far beyond the resources of the IoM, we are talking about sextillions of metric tons of material, while the IoM struggles to build ships that only mass a few billion metric tons.

Building one giant ship is not an equal challenge to building the same mass in smaller vessels. As an example the UK Navy has a total displacement of approximately 439,200 tonnes (815,200 tonnes including the Royal Fleet Auxiliary). Their largest ship displaces only 65,000 tonnes by your logic they shouldn't be able to build a fleet because they can't build one singularly massive ship.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/25 23:56:20


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

 Canadian 5th wrote:


Tyran wrote:
Your source is talking about dismantling the entire inner solar system.

Yes, yes it is.

That is far beyond the resources of the IoM, we are talking about sextillions of metric tons of material, while the IoM struggles to build ships that only mass a few billion metric tons.

Building one giant ship is not an equal challenge to building the same mass in smaller vessels. As an example the UK Navy has a total displacement of approximately 439,200 tonnes (815,200 tonnes including the Royal Fleet Auxiliary). Their largest ship displaces only 65,000 tonnes by your logic they shouldn't be able to build a fleet because they can't build one singularly massive ship.


No he's saying that just because you can build a 65,000Tonne ship doesn't mean you can then build a 100,000,000,000,000 Tonne ship. In fact there are huge hurdles of technology required to make advances like that. Not leave of which you're into building mega-structures that will generate their own gravity field that will have a massive impact on those living aboard. In addition you're talking about an Imperium of Mankind that still loads the ships they have by giving humans the fuel and making them walk into the reactor which basically destroys those people through extreme radiation exposure (and gods know what else that's inside those reactors). All because that's how its always been done. They take people, scoop out their minds and make them into living cyborg servitors - some of which are built purely for the task of tightening one bolt on a tank that hasn't changed in design for generations. About an Imperium who have the right to punish and execute people for making modifications like putting a better sight onto their rifle.

Not only haven't they the technology, they don't even have the social structure nor upbringing to start even the basics of developing such technologies.

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in ca
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Vancouver, BC

 Overread wrote:
No he's saying that just because you can build a 65,000Tonne ship doesn't mean you can then build a 100,000,000,000,000 Tonne ship.

Then it's a good thing I never suggested that. I suggested a Dyson Swarm which is millions of smaller habitats circling their star in a complex series of orbits. The articles I posted cover both types of structure as well as simple Dyson Rings and Dyson Bubbles.

Please pay attention to what I'm writing and fully read the posted links next time.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/26 00:35:06


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







 Canadian 5th wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
1) it takes time for that light to reach a target (light from our own sun takes 8 minutes to reach us). So you'd have to aim and focus those mirrors not at where the ship is, but where it's going to be in the future.

The same as any weapon in common use in 40k and much faster than a macro cannon battery or missiles.

2) it takes time for that light to heat up an object. Ants get popped by magnifying glasses because they're incredibly tiny. Ships, especially on 40k, are enormous. Not only are you going to have to adjust your mirrors a good 10 minutes in advance to keep them focused on the ship, but you'd have to hope the ship follows the exact trajectory you planned for.

You do realize that lascannons are lasers and they work just fine, right? The sun has more power almost any 40k ship and properly focused won't need a ton of time or target. Aiming is handled via servitors linked into a targeting system so the mirrors that need to move do so in sync with each other.

3) as that light passes through electromagnetic fields, dust and debris, and gravity wells, it would be distorted and the focus would weaken. Which means that even if you can perfectly plan all of the above, you'd still have issues getting it to do what you want.

40k fires lasers from the ground to space without issue, this is a solved problem in-universe.

Also, we plan to use lasers to push things to Alpha Centauri with modern tech. So aiming and focusing over those distances is already plausible, why would things be worse in 40k?

 Overread wrote:
Also one torpedo or gunshot or grot through the lens of the glass and its shattered.

Yes, because this is going to be a single glass lens and not thousands or millions of polished metal mirrors... Try looking up the concept before critiquing it.


You're advocating for the Dyson sphere of defensive weapons.

Because what you're leaving out is:
- It's a huge mirror array, where each element of the array is going to need a control system and be subject to transmission delays, and coordination issues due to the scale.
- It's a huge mirror array, where each element of the array is going to need maintenance.

It's a perfectly fine idea if what you're looking for is something that could be built as a massive art project, or similar style of public works, or be the result of repurposing a public works project.

I can imagine someone trying to write up a "solar powered laser defense array" and figuring that at sufficient scale they could just cut out the laser system. The problem with that is that you have to pay more (more control elements, more maintenance, more raw materials to build it) for the system to increase the scale.

And that's before getting into "So the attacker brought its own mirror array/solar panels"...

   
Made in mx
Rampaging Carnifex



Mexico

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Building one giant ship is not an equal challenge to building the same mass in smaller vessels. As an example the UK Navy has a total displacement of approximately 439,200 tonnes (815,200 tonnes including the Royal Fleet Auxiliary). Their largest ship displaces only 65,000 tonnes by your logic they shouldn't be able to build a fleet because they can't build one singularly massive ship.


Insane difference in scale, what you are asking is the equivalent of asking the UK navy to build a fleet with a total displacement in the quatrillions of metric tons.

BTW that is like giving everyone (and I mean everyone) their own personal Nimitz class supercarrier and a free battleship.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/26 01:01:17


 
   
Made in ca
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Vancouver, BC

 solkan wrote:
You're advocating for the Dyson sphere of defensive weapons.

You're massively behind the conversation. Check the links I've posted a page back about how we have modern proposals to start building a Dyson swarm with modern tech.

Tyran wrote:
Insane difference in scale, what you are asking is the equivalent of asking the UK navy to build a fleet with a total displacement in the quatrillions of metric tons.

Indeed, it is a matter of scale. You start by building factories that build factories and then once each site is set up you have those factories build the mining equipment and refineries. Then those start to build and launch your mirrored space habitats.

BTW that is like giving everyone (and I mean everyone) their own personal Nimitz class supercarrier and a free battleship.

Yeah, but you can also have a population of 1 Trillion assuming 1,000,000 stations holding 1,000,000 people each. That's a low-end figure, you can get into the Quadrillions around a single star if you assume a larger swarm, larger habs, or storing some people as digital entities.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/26 01:34:16


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Annandale, VA

If anyone needs a shining example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, here it is.

Edit: The above was in response to an enormous wall of text from Ernestas, which now appears to be gone, at least to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/01 18:07:24


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

Also through that entire youtube video about Adrian I noted two things

1) It never once said anything about close combat - it was all GUNS and ranged weapons being used.

2) He got taken out of action numerous times by guns. It was the fact that most of them hit extremities and missed his core (barring the first few) that allowed him to keep taking injuries and surviving. Along with some insane luck in getting hit in the head around 5 or more times that I could count and surviving each time.

He was an impressive warrior, but you can clearly see that he never charged into close combat blind; he was using rifles, revolvers, grenades. All ranged weapons.





Also I thought we'd given up with close combat VS ranged and moved onto sedentary life on planets and moving the whole population itno spaceships.

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