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I'm not sure if this is the right forum (feel free to move it), but I'm planning on purchasing my first Tau this Black Friday ( a mighty capitalist day of sales, just in case you Brits don't have this). Currently I am planning on getting a battleforce, a box of firewarriors, and a stingray/hammerhead box to start. Any thoughts/suggestions?

do you have the codex yet? Key units to consider are: suits, devilfish, hammerheads and broadsides. Don't go too crazy with the firewarriors yet, as you might find that you want to keep their numbers at a minimum.

Have codex; have read thoroughly. Read plenty on what to take/not take. I'm just guessing that it would probably be good to have at least 2 units of fire warriors, even if I use the 2nd as pathfinders (I am NOT paying that much for metal models just for different poses and a little chip on the guns).

To reword the question: Order of buying stuff/ what to get first?

I would have to say that fire warriors are your best bet for your first buy as you have to have them. Then you need a Battlesuit for your commander. Don't bother with the commander as he just costs more like your pathfinder thing. this is unless you want some of the parts from that kit. Alternatively you could get shadowsun as she looks cool but play her as battlesiut commander could maybe even do a conversion there. Then after you have got the FW and commander then you will need at least 1 devilfish. Probably go for the sky ray box set as apparently it has stuff for the hammerhead and can be ajusted to be a devilfish. It's pretty much a tank in a box. However i could be wrong as i have never bought one. Check with other people fisrt. Then after that... you then need batllesuits. Then work your way from there in whatever direction you wish to take. Hope this has been helpful if at all understandable.

The battleforce comes with a devilfish and suit...

Yeah i would go for the battleforce. It even comes with the stealth suits which i think are awesome. Sorry if I sound a bit oppinionated. If that is such a word...

Sounds like a good start. As said, you also need a Codex and some battlesuit to use as your commander (a mandatory choice in the Codex), either the special box for him or convert another suit.

Suits are important, and NOT stealth suits. They are Overpriced and Underpowered.
make sure at some point you get some crisis battlesuits.

stompydakka wrote:Suits are important, and NOT stealth suits. They are Overpriced and Underpowered.
make sure at some point you get some crisis battlesuits.

I know they're not good but they sure do look cool.

Well all the models you plan on getting are either compulsory or very good so they will make a good start. You will probably want some more crisis suits as they are by far the best unit in the army. They can be built to deal with any problem, and do a lot of the damage. If you do get a hammerhead I recommend making a railgun hammerhead as they are vastly superior (at least IMO)

Further advice depends on what kind of Tau army you are planning on. Gunline, Mech or hybrid. If you can tell us what style you want to play we can give some more appropriate advice. Tau are an army which needs to be built with a particular plan in mind. We don't generalise well.

Crysis suits in good numbers is good. I think 9 is an excellent number for higher points games. It really depends on what you want to focus on. Tis sad, so much great weaponry in a 3 man crysis suit squad, but if they eat a single BC shell, their all gone :( try not to pimp them to much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
^ Battle Cannon

Here's a good purchase list:

Start with a battleforce.
Add the following:
8 more crisis suits.
3-6 Broadside battle suits
2 more devilfish
2 hammerheads (but buy the skyray box since it comes with all the parts for both the skyray and hammerhead)

Later:
Add more kroot if you like them, especially hounds.
Piranhas if you like them (find a buddy that has landspeeders and run them as counts-as piranha just to see if you like them).

That's a fair chunk of change but you'll wind up with about 2500-3000 pts worth.

Welcome to the greater good.

My advice to you: start with a different army.

Broadsides, two of them, railguns are wonderful things.

stompydakka wrote:Suits are important, and NOT stealth suits. They are Overpriced and Underpowered.
make sure at some point you get some crisis battlesuits.

I dunno. I find that against orks, stealth suits work quite well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

coolyo294 wrote:My advice to you: start with a different army.

Dude, Tau aren't as hard to start as many people say. Don't listen to this guy. I started with Tau and Space Marines (yes, at the same time), and I find Tau can actually be easier to play in some cases. Oh, and kroot are actually not all that bad. Get them in cover if you are shooting, and charge anyone who is trying to assault your fire warriors with them. Actually even fire warriors can hold their own in close combat.

Thanks for the advice, and I'm sorry, but can someone explain the different types of Tau? Mech sounds fairly explanatory (suits/d-fishes, ect) and I'm guessing that gunline involves pumping out shots (so lots of fire warriors), so is hybrid just a generalized compromise?

Unlike most races, the Tau battleforce is actually worth getting and provides a playable force directly out of the box.

This set contains
1 xv-8 Battlesuit
3 Stealth Suits
12 Fire Warriors
12 Kroot
1 Devilfish
90$

I would then add
2 xv-8 suits
1 xv-8 Commander
1 Hammerhead
1 Devilfish
145$

This addition will make a competitive 1000 pt list or a stretched out 1500 list

1 Hammerhead
3 Broadsides
3 Crisis Suits
205$

This will make a competitive 1500 list in the basic semi mech build that Tau must run to be effective in this edition

To get to your magic 1750, Its really up to you. This is the area where stuff begins to diverge from the "needs" to the "wants" I would suggest one of the following items

3 Piranhas 75$

8(9) Pathfinders 45$

10 Kroots hounds and 16 Carnivores 95$

3 Crisis Suits 60$

Tau are certainly not the easiest army to start with. They are very unforgiving and require a lot of games to get used to. Speaking from experience, it takes about 20 games to find your feet and more after that to become really proficient. Tau require constant attention to detail because the smallest mistakes in movement or target priority can be fatal. Websites like dakka as well as Advanced Tau Tactica, and Yes The Truth Hurts can get you up to speed and should be consulted early and often. This is not meant to be discouraging, far from it. However, when you do start Tau, realize what you are getting into.

A little more about playing Tau at this level.

Once you reach this level and above, the great Pathfinder v No Pathfinder debate starts. Pathfinders are increadibly useful units, that can cover a number of flaws in the Tau list. IMO however, I can't justify the 200+ points it costs to field a full Pathfinder squad and their Warfish until I reach 2000 pts. YMMV and certainly others will tell you that they are a mandatory unit and they may not be wrong. My advice is to try them for yourself.

Kroot are another major bone of contention with Tau players. Many people use them as "bubblewrap" to protect high point crisis and broadside teams. Other people despise them and will never field them. The two major unit sizes are the basic 10 carnivores and the 5 hound 10-12 carnivore groupings. The first is a ultra basic cannon fodder troop. Because I can't ever seem to find the 60$ for kroot hounds, this is my preferred size. I always outflank with them to keep them alive. In this role, they serve to chew up small board hugging squads and vehicles. If used in this role remember one rule, Double Tap Marines, never assault them. Marines will slaughter your carnivores before they can swing and you will do less damage overall. This initiative deficiency is why you have hounds. With hounds, you can assault marines, just remember to put the wounds from the marines on the hounds, so your carnivores survive to swing. The shaper and the armor upgrade are worthless. For the cost, you can get more carnivores and do more damage.

Fire Warriors have so much potential, but often fall short of what you expect of them. Always set you expectations low for FW, any damage they do is a bonus. Their main duty is to ride in their transport and make it scoring. Sure they can pop out and rapid fire something (Land speeders come to mind) but their main role is to sit pretty. You will never need more than 12 FW. The only time I have needed more is for kill team. (where they are awesome) Put a squad of 6 in a devilfish and drive them around. I have two in my lists. That said, a FW squad sitting innocuously in cover in a corner can cover a surprising amount of the table with strength 5 shots. Against light vehicles like Land speeders and vypers this is a potent threat and one you opponent will often overlook.

Devilfish are the unit that keep Tau competitive in 5th edition. These should always have a Disruption pod. 5 points for a 4 up cover yes please. I always make my Devilfish a Warfish by addition a targeting array, multi tracker and Smart missile system. This makes up for the lack of shooting from the FW team inside. It also replaces the drones that count as an extra kill point. It does add about 40 points onto the cost of an already expensive transport however, so YMMV

Steath Suits are just not very good unfortunatly. They are simply too expensive and take an elite slot away from crisis teams. If they were cheaper or could take more special weapons they would be more useful. Right now they are an over priced torrent of fire unit that lacks definition.

Crisis suits are the backbone of most any tau army and are a topic of much contention between Tau players. There are many opinions on the subject, many of which have merit. I will present mine here and hopefully others (if Focusedfire hasn't ninja'd me already ) will chime in with their ideas so you can get a broader picture. IMO, and I stress, IMO anything that gets in the way of providing the maximum number of shots is a bad thing. I would prefer to the maximum number of crisis suits on the table, then to have fewer, more efficient, and to an extent more survivable suits. Call it quantity over quality, but IMO suits aren't tremendously survivable anyway and I would like to get more of them on the table so if I lose a few, I have more to fall back on. A Soviet Army ideal for the Space Commies (ooh the irony) With the philosophy out of the way, lets get to the configurations.

I run 4 (configurations) in my lists

My commander is a Shas'el with a Targeting Array, Missile Pod, Hard Wired Multi-tracker, and Fusion Blaster. (Modified FireForge) This is a multi role suit, who can attach to one of my other squads and support their fire, or can be deep struck to hunt armor with the melta.

I always run at least one, and usually two squads of (Fireknives) This is the most common suit configuration, and is a true multirole suit. Simply a Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, and Multi tracker this suit covers most all of your bases and is a must include in all of my lists. Its an expensive suit (a squad of three runs just shy of 190 pts) but the utility, is invaluable.

My other must include unit is a unit of (Deathrain-F) This suit is designed to be cheap, but it does its job reliably and cover's some bases that I find lacking in my lists. With a Twin Linked Missile Pod and a Flamer, this squad will drop a chimera or a rhino every turn or can reliable put wounds on high toughness creatures and HQ's. If necessary, it can close and use the flamers for anti-horde. Note this configuration has no multi tracker, so its an either/or situation with the weapons.

The last configuration is a response to the large numbers of FNP Blood angels and Loganwing armies I have started to see much more regularly. The (Sunforge) is a major sacrifice to the ideal of ignoring armor and FNP. Using a Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, and a Multi tracker this unit will utterly decimate most units not in cover. However, the extremely short range makes this a one way mission if you can't totally wipe the squad in question. Costing equal to the Fireknives, its an expensive suicide unit, but its very effective vs low model count elite armies. It also smokes Carnifexes. This squad more than any other benefits from markerlight support to make sure that those shots count.

Vespids are unfortunately made of fail. While its occasionally satisfying to drop the bug bomb on the local marine player, they are far too fragile and expensive to be used competitively.

Piranhas are a matter of personal taste. I really enjoy taking them, and I find they provide a useful function for me. However, they do give up a lot of kill points if they aren't squadroned. I always field mine with a Fusion Blaster, a Targeting Array, and a Disruption Pod. This provides maximum utility, but makes them a little expensive. Their use it very situational, but boils down to either Tank hunting or being a speed bump. The tank hunter is self explanatory. Being a speed bumb means turbo boosting directly in front of a fast moving assault unit to slow them down or directly in the path of a vehicle to force them to move around the piranha (or risk dangerous going through the piranha's wreckage ) This "Stiff arm" can buy you critical early turns where Tau can win or lose the game. ( a note about the drones, don't forget the piranha is a open topped vehicle and the drones can assault out of it. Use this to contest late objective or to keep a fleeing squad from regrouping. Also despite their crappy BS, the drones can occasionally pop rear armor with S5 Shots, so sometimes its worth ejecting them to go for the twofer when behind the enemy. Their shots are also pinning FWIW)

Sniper Drones have never been a favorite of mine. This is simply a recognition that field sniper drones means less railguns. In lower point games (1000 or less or in team tournaments) they can be very effective. The combination of dropping marines on two's w/ no armor save and the BS4 networked markerlights are nice and they would be used much more if they occupied a different FOC slot, but they don't and I can't recommend them. Slipping a rail rifle or two into your pathfinder squad is a better way to get rail rifles onto the battlefield.

Skyrays are also something that is probably in the wrong FOC. The combination of limited ammuntion and weak (and expensive) secondary armament makes it a no go for me. Great in Apoc though.

Broadsides are simple the final answer in Anti-anything really. If its a single target that resides on the table and can be seen, broadsides can kill it in at most two turns. Broadsides are pretty simple to deploy. Always give them the unfortunately named Advanced Stabilization system, so they have limited mobility. (and so Dawn of War doesn't screw you for a turn) Also near mandatory are two shield drones. These provide the protection from all of the scary weapons that will come their way. Broadsides nearly always should find a elevated position (cover is really nice too) and simple dominate the battlefield. I always give the team leader a target lock so that he can independently target from the squad. (Always check to see how your gaming group deals with this piece of wargear, which rides the ragged edge of legality due to an outdated codex) Don't forget that despite their tank killing prowess, that Broadsides do have a Smart Missile System as well which is much more effective vs hordes than turning one or two termagaunts into component atoms with the railguns. Broadsides should always have priority for markerlights. Reducing cover against the railguns is invaluable.

Hammerheads are the opposite side of the coin, trading concentrated firepower for mobility and the almighty large blast template. Never forget that Hammerhead have an integrated targeting array and are always BS4. Hammerhead should ALWAYS have a Disruption pod and should most of the time have a multi tracker so that you can fire like a fast vehicle. Target locks are also nice so that you can shoot two separate targets. I find that I primarily use the large blast with the hammerhead, not that the hammerhead isn't a capable anti tank platform, I just find that I have an overwhelming tendancy to roll ones and twos when I really need them. The blast template is the really the only one the tau have available, so I really try to let the broadsides and crisis suits deal with the tanks and use the Hammerhead for anti infantry.

I find that for the point levels that you are talking about, that a 1 to 2 Broadside to Hammerhead ratio is ideal. Its really fun to "bring the rain" with multiple Broadside teams, but you risk being too static to survive.


I will copy in another post on playstyle after this but I want to mention one thing.

Target priority is where Tau win and lose the game. Certain things must die for tau to have a chance. Wasted shots are the worst sin a tau player can commit.(followed closely by being so excited about the shooting phase that you skip the movement phase) To prevent wasted shots, carefully consider line of fire to the targets and what abilities your units have (anti tank, anti MEQ, anti horde) and then fire the units with the most restricted target selection first, so that you have redundancy if a units fails to destroy a target.

ie My hammerhead can only shoot the Rhino, so I will shoot it first. Followed by the Deathrain team who can target the rhino if the hammerhead misses or take out the land speeder in the open. Finally, the Broadsides will target, the Land Raider if everything has been destroyed or cover one of the other teams surviving targets. This way you never waste shots because you always have targets of opportunity available. Enemy mobility should always be targeted first. Tau can outshoot almost anyone from across the board.

Final Thoughts
Always buy the Skyray box, it contains all parts for any tau tank
Keep your troops cheap
Deploy carefully

Have Fun with Tau



Razor

Wow razor, that was a lot. But from what other stuff I've read up on about Tau, I like your advice.

Would a Shas'el w/ AFP, CIB, possibly a burst cannon, a multitracker & appropriate wargear be okay, primarily to be used as a horde slayer? The biggest drawback I see is that its range is only 18", rather dangerous. Then again, JSJ would bring this up to 24", but still, that's kind of close.

Glad to help. In response to your question, it would depend on your opponents. I don't play a lot of horde armies and so I deal with infantry simply by the use of hammerhead submunition rounds as well as burst cannon and smart missile fire from my devilfish.

I did try a similar idea when I was starting out about using a single elite crisis suit with a AFP, TL flamer and a MT for horde removal, but he almost had to deep strike and wasn't all that effective. Also you are wasting the commanders high BS on weapons that don't really take advantage of it. It might be worth it more in smaller games where masses of infantry are more prevalent. Once you get above 1000 pts, in my experience, there are too few opportunities and a more well rounded HQ will be a better choice on most occasions.

As a compromise, I have been knocking around the idea of using an Aurora pattern HQ instead of my normal one. CIB, PR, MT would given me seven shots against hordes, but the combination could easily drop several marines or terms if you roll well with the CIB. It would force me to give up my only suit melta, which has served me well in many games, but might be more effective as an attachment to a squad of fireknives rather than a lone wolf.

YMMV

Razor

Well the styles usually consist of the following units

Mech- Crisis suits (lots of them, at least 9 in 2k games), minimum sized FW squad in Dfish (often given full upgrades, which makes them more powerful than the FW inside), Hammerheads (I only run hammerheads as I find Broadsides to be too slow. IMO it's too easy to heat them with a few high S low AP weapons which they have no chance at surviving. Plus hammer head railguns can fire submunition so are good in most circumstances). Pathfinders aren't really mech as they are need to stay still to fire but for their points I find they are worth getting. Usually I give the Dfish to FW and get 2 or 3 turns of marker lighting before they die.

This army focuses on moving around the enemy, try to keep the casulties low while wearing down enemy units.

Gunline- More FW than in mech armies, they can actually be of some use in this army as you will probably be giving them marker light bonuses.Crisis suits (but not as many as mech) usually armed with long range weapons. Broadsides instead of hammerheads (here they can sit behind other units so being fragile isn't such a problem). Kroot are a must have here, they can be used to keep the enemy from getting into combat. This army is a lot slower than mech so kroot are also good for grabbing objectives.

With this style you just try to kill everything before it gets to you by focusing on as much firepower as possible. I personally find this build has died a bit as many armies can get into combat in turn 2 but others still claim it works.

Your crisis suits should be built to take down low AV vehicles, MC and tough infantry. Hordes can be killed by FW and Dfish, with S 5 AP 4 they kill them pretty quick. it's good to keep away from the 18" guns as that is a bit close. Crisis suits should be very specialised so you commander should probably have the same gear as the rest of the unit (plus special wargear). Fireknife (PR, MP and MT) and Deathrain (TL MP and TA) are some good configurations, if you search for crisis suit configurations you will get some ideas for the best for each situation. Also unless you mean marker drones crisis suits can't take marker lights.

Sorry, that was meant to be multitracker.

Get the codex first. Don't get the space priest (ethereal) or the space pope (Aun'va). They're worthless.

coolyo294 wrote:My advice to you: start with a different army.

Ha, Ha, Ha! Very funny!

I do hope you can keep up this excellent level of dry wit.

@ coolyo294: If you'd notice my sig, I have been playing marines for a while. This'd be my second army. Stop being so negative.