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Right. so, lets say a chimera with turret multi laser and hull heavy flamer has not moved and may fire both weapons.

i say my target is a unit that is within range of the multi laser, but out of template range. now since none of the target unit can be hit by my flamer template am i free to turn it where ever? like on the unit that is in perfect flamer formation right in front of the tank?

now if i could clip one model of the other unit with the flamer template then i must do so.


OR lets say a wraithlord with Bright lance, Missile launcher and 2 flamers says his target is a tank that is again within range of the 2 guns, but not the flamers.... would it be free to toast the unit of guys standing by him?

If the template is out of range it misses outright and wouldn't fire/hit anything. You especially could not target another unit with the flamer just because you were out of range.

P.17 of the BRB for that rule.

Indeed, being out of range = auto miss

quite right, out of range ='s auto misses

flamers do not roll to hit though.

The wording on page 29 the mini rule book is
"instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing, and the rest of the template covers as meny models as possible in the target unit without touching any friendly models"

if we go by RAW then well, i cant touch any of the target unit so i am free to turn it how i wish.

if we go by RAI then well, i cant touch any of the target unit so i cant fire.


i am going by RAI on this one, but what do you do to the rules lawyer who tries to do this? by RAW i cant see why he couldent do it.

No, if you go by RAW ANY weapon that is out of range AUTOMATICALLY misses.

Read the shooting rules, "check range", which precedes rolling to hit. BTW the range of a template weapon is "template".

Nos is right envy, if the 8.1" flame template is out of ranged of the targeted squad unfortunately it will AUTO-MISS

You dont get to the "roll to hit" stage, essentially - even though you hit automatically, if you are told you will miss automatically the step before you never find out you woul dhave hit automatically had you been in range...

Or something like that.

In the end: RAW you cannot flame one unit when your actual target is out of range.

Envy; go back to the First line of the hit resolution paragraph: "Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so that it's narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit without also touching any friendly models."

I Italicized the important bit here; if the Target unit is out of range of the Template; can you legally place the template?

No, no you cannot.

can a flamer hit multiple units at once?

yes providing 2 situations:

1) the main target unit is hit

2) The template covers as many models as possible in the Main target unit

Ok so the rulebook says, "place the flamer template so that it hits as many models in the target unit as possible."

So couldn't a situating occur where, and I'll use Envy's example for this, you have a Chimera with Multi Laser and Heavy Flamer. You fire the Multi Laser at, lets say a unit of Land Speeders, and then lets hypothetically say that there is also a unit of marines in front of the Chimera in Flamer range that just happened to be at the same angle as the unit of Land Speeders you just shot at.

Now the rules say you have to attempt to cover as many enemy models in the targeted unit as possible, but since the Land Speeders are out of range the flamer would still fire. The template, however, would aim toward the Land Speeders in the "attempt" to cover as many of them as possible, and in the process would hit the marines that were standing in front.

I believe this is correct because the flamer would still fire but you can not angle the template whichever way you like, but in the rare situation that the unit is at the same angle couldn't you still fire the flamer and hit them in the "attempt" to cover as many models as possible? Note it says the word "attempt" that means even in the event of a failed shot.

IIRC It also says that if the Target unit is out of range the Template misses entirely.

That means it does not hit anything.

Sanguinis - there was just a thread about this.

If you are out of range you miss automatically. No ifs, buts, or anything.

Ok thanks Nos!

I was wondering because someone pulled that on me.

I never actually tried it myself.

i believe it falls into the same category as the vindicator thats not in range. You can shoot it hoping that it'll scatter onto something, you have to be able to actually put the template on your target and not just hope for a lucky roll to extend your range.

pjmcgrath07 wrote:i believe it falls into the same category as the vindicator thats not in range. You can shoot it hoping that it'll scatter onto something, you have to be able to actually put the template on your target and not just hope for a lucky roll to extend your range.

What its a flame template, not a blast template, so no you can't.

Envy89 wrote:if we go by RAW then well, i cant touch any of the target unit so i am free to turn it how i wish.

What RAW gives you permission to target a different unit?

Noir wrote:

pjmcgrath07 wrote:i believe it falls into the same category as the vindicator thats not in range. You can shoot it hoping that it'll scatter onto something, you have to be able to actually put the template on your target and not just hope for a lucky roll to extend your range.

What its a flame template, not a blast template, so no you can't.

I read his post and was very confused by it. It seems to claim one thing and them claim the opposite. I am 99% sure it's just a typo. Add 't to can in his 2nd sentence and it not only makes sense but is also correct rules!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Envy89 wrote:if we go by RAW then well, i cant touch any of the target unit so i am free to turn it how i wish.

What RAW gives you permission to target a different unit?

He's saying the following:

You have to place the template to cover the maximum number of models in the target squad.
If they're out of range, you can't cover any models.
That means that any placement that doesn't hit a friendly model is equally legitimate.
So, placing the template to hit a 2nd squad (while maintaining your maximum of zero on the target squad) would be allowed.

From that logic, he's correct. But, he was missing the issue that when your target is out of range, you auto-miss, even for guns that don't have standard hit/miss rules.

I think he is just missing the 't' in his 'cant' for it, the rest of the post suggests he thinks you need to be in range or you automatically miss.