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There are many types of units in 40k. There are those that are good and we know are good (Vendettas, Assault Terminators, etc), those that are bad and we know are bad (Flash Gitz, Chaos Spawn), those that are bad that we keep telling ourselves that "But it can work if you know how to use it!" (Shining Spears).

This thread is about those units that are good from a competitive standpoint, but have been glossed over either due to shiny units in the same slot or failed Internet Wisdom. So here goes:

Space Marines:
-Ironclad Dreads: They dislike melta, and are close-combat dreads. But 6 or even 3 of them, backed up by massed firepower and lots of Hunter-Killers, have the means to pull critical enemy support units away, while they charge into melee, beating up on many lesser foes.
-Scout Bikers: In the land of the Speeder or Attack Bike, can these guys have a role? Yes. Turn 1 grenade and combi-melta disruption, boxing in enemy scouts, serving as a relay to Gate of Infinity mean units near the enemy. The Astartes Grenade Launchers are cheap for what they provide too.
-The Thunderfire: It's Artillery (boo!). Dedicated anti-infantry, and many other such issues. Yet since Marines maintain the ability to keep reliable anti-tank throughout their army, they can afford one of these. While many players nowadays ask "how do I deal with mech", a lesser-remembered question is "once I deal with the mech, how do I deal with the guys inside?" Since wrecked/exploded transports lead to passengers being very conveniently bunched up for blast weapons, why not bring a relatively affordable multiblast gun to the fray. Provided you have some Razorbacks (you're Marines, duh) to provide mobile firepower, and to screen the Thunderfire from return fire, you'll do well enough.

Imperial Guard:
-Stormtroopers: Expensive yes. But valuable, yes. 5 of these guys, 2 Meltaguns, and a Chimera, give you an extremely flexible suicide unit, that can either Deep Strike/Infiltrate (and infiltrators are generally at a premium with Guard) while another unit ganks their ride, or provide a Scouting Chimera for turn-1 Meltagunning of critical targets. They're not a scoring unit, making them more expendable for this purpose too.
-Hellhound Variants: Seriously. Fast Tanks (tankshock ftw), with good armor, low profiles (so they will get cover), and the ability to gear up to provide reasonable threats against whatever they face. Personally, I like the Devil Dog with Hull-mounted Heavy Flamer best, for there are no targets it is truly bad against, and the threat of vehicle multikills is great for disrupting enemy carparks.

Space Wolves:
-The Ironpriest: For cavalry-happy armies, he's not a bad deal. While only having one wound, he has a lot of ablative wounds so it's a bit of a wash. While solo Thunderwolf models are great at finishing suppressed vehicles, this guy tears infantry a new one.

Tyranids:
-Half the codex. See Hulksmash's tactica...

Blood Angels:
-Techmarines: There's a reason these guys are not useless. They can replace the Servo-Arm with a Jump Pack for free. And they can take a Combi-Melta. Considering they're Elites, and many BA armies tend to squee in delight over having 6 Predators...yeah.

Got any similar "under the radar" units?

How about Rough Riders?

They can wreck well above their points in face but you don't see them in lists too often.

At least I don't.

Scout bikers are fun but mianly used in scout-only armies (Although rare they do exist) and they are usually not taken because people would rather take LS storms or actual LS.

Almarine wrote:How about Rough Riders?

They can wreck well above their points in face but you don't see them in lists too often.

At least I don't.

Because they're as tough as Guardsmen (that is, not very), and move like Guardsmen until within assault range. Also they can't hide in transports.

They can certainly hit hard, which is what ensures they will die. Something that hits hard but is easy to kill is going to get whacked first.

You could maybe use them as countercharge or run them alongside powerblobs, but cavalry aren't exactly small so they're hard to hide out of LoS.

Rough riders compete with vendettas for the same force org slot. Fans of the vendetta will say it's the single best entry in the codex when combined with vet squads.

TFC murder bikes and jump infantry, give the cover bonus, and are inexpensive for what they do.

Scout bikes in a BA army is one of the most under the radar units in the game. It is very easy to give them FC on a turn 1 charge. They are excellent at shielding other units for cover saves. With a scout move turbo boost they are T5 3++cover FNP. That's the same as a plague marine that has gone to ground in cover for less points. BS3 isn't an issue with TL guns. WS3 A1 is normally their greatest weakness, but with FC, FNP, and/or the Sanguinor in the army they become a respectable CC unit.

i definitly agree with TFCs being overlooked. sure they take up HS slots, but at lower point games they can be very nasty.


i am actually doing a little expieriement. i plan on taking 3 to, dare i say it, 'Ard Boyz

Leman Russ Punisher: suffers from much the same issue as the thunderfire Cannon in that it is a dedicated anti-infantry unit, Somewhat Pricey, has fairly shot range, and an AP -. Many of these "issues" are actually Self-mitigating, A high volume of fire with a better BS than Orks is nothing to scoff at, add to that the fact that the punisher can move and Fire and the range is suddenly less of an issue. The Cost is less than just about any other way to get the Sheer volume of fire that the punisher can put out. the only thing you have left is the lack on an AP; but that is itself mitigated by its targets who are either going to have so high of a save that they are not likely to make it to begin with, So low of a save that they would save against any other similar weapon anyways, or Be inside of cover for the Middle-ground units that a comparable weapons AP would negate anyways.

The leman russ punisher is actually surprisingly good at killing terminators.

I think that the Chaos Daemon's flesh hounds are a bit under rated. S4 + FC beast moving units are pretty scary. The speed to keep up with most things (fleet + 12 inch charge) and S5 (to wound on 2-3s and threaten rear armor) means they are a really effective unit. They only compete against seekers and screamers. Seekers are fragile and not as strong, and rely too much on rending. Screamers are too specialized IMHO.

Flesh hounds are a really solid unit that people tend to gloss over.

People seem to hate on the Land Speeder Storm full of scouts.

I think its wonderful. I actually have documentation as to why.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/329682.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311802.page

it's a good unit, but most people approace weather a unit is Good or not from the perspective of 2500 point tournaments.

the LSS takes up a whole FA slot to transport a 5 man squad of scouts(another FoC slot)

it is deadly in smaller games because it can transport a small, cheap, scout squad to assault some unsuspecting enemy. 3 such units will ruin many an enemies day.


in larger games it simply loses out because it takes up a FoC slot that contains regular Landspeeders and Bikes.

Hmmm...

I will have to batrep some larger games. They're good there too. Highly mobile Scoring Units with melta guns are something I always like to have around. YMMV

BishopX wrote:The leman russ punisher is actually surprisingly good at killing terminators.

not as surprising when you take into account that the most common Slayer of Termies is massed small arms fire; 20 Shots fired roughly 10 hit, 6.333 wound, that is 1 average dead termie. The math shows a small amount of dead termies, but it is higher than a single lascannon, and a little higher than a Single Plasma gun inside of rapid fire range.

The overall percentage chance to kill is 5.555% per individual shot which isn't to terribly bad, considering. Incedently this is the same chane to kill with an individual heavy bolter Shot but you get 20 attempts with the Punisher vs 3 attempts with the heavy bolter(or 9 attempts if you add the HB Sponsons).

Percentage Chance/shot is a far superior method from Average Kills per turn; Average kills gives you A false confidence that over x# of turns you will kill what you have worked out the averages for. Percentage gives you a more realistic for every shot I can attempt, this is the likelihood that that shot will kill.

Sure the Lascannon has a 27.777% chance to kill a termie/shot, but you get 1 and done; you have 20 attempts to kill the termies with the punisher. A real world example would be having $20 to spend on Lotto Scratch offs; you can buy 1 $20 Scratch off and hope to win something(Generally a 25-33% chance) of you can buy 20 $1 Scratch offs with a chance to win several somethings (Generally a 20-25% chance per ticket).

I'm going to nominate the lash sorcerer as an alternative to the prince. to me his ability to hide in squads and to take warp time make him both a better fighter than the demon prince and much harder for the opponent to take down, for only a slight increase in cost.

In the space marines book I think that tigerius doesnt quite get his due. he's expensive and not much of a fighter, but his re-roll reserves ability is potentially very important for drop pod armies, and since he has all of the psychic powers, he always has an answer, no matter what particular problem he's up against. That's alot of flexibility for one model.

For chaos demons I would nominate skarbrand. fateweaver is good too but if I have a choice between wiping my opponents and buffing my save I'm going to go for wiping my opponents every time. demons have some pretty high initiative models - they'll be swinging first often enough that they shouldnt fear the opponent getting the rerolls too.

Also.... I've often thought that running skarbrand, fateweaver, and 3 demon princes with mark of tzeentch would make a pretty brutal close combat force. tough, killy, mobile.... whats not to like?

Another Nomination would be the Penal Legionaries; panned for the random abilities, lack of transport, lack of Weapon Options, and small unit size for the price. Well First let's tackle that price, they all have Stubborn which standard guard Platoon infantry have to buy a Commissar for(which ends up costing 5 points more than the Legionaries) then on top of that they get their random special abilities(which i will touch on later), and they get Scouts. The Lack of Weapon options just mean that you might as well be moving with them every turn so they are great for running after objectives. Lack of DT is mitigated by 2 factors: 1 they are scouts and therefore get a free move before the Game. 2 people are rather fond of Valkyries/Vendettas anyways and they are a great unit for air dropping into enemy terretories when they roll up 2 of their special abilities. That brings us to their random Special abilities; the first turns their lasguns into Assault 2 weapons, so they basically get a free FRFSRF every turn. the second is Psychpaths granting them Fleet, Counter attack, and furious charge, which basically makes them Stronger, faster, and better in most CC situations. The Third is Knife fighters granting them 2 CCWs and Rending with those weapons. The only remaining flaw is that they are a "thinking man's unit" meaning that you have to adapt your tactics with them for every game depending on which Desperadoes rule they gain in the game.

I'm going to throw the proverbial hat in the ring with the Stealthsuits of the Tau.

Coming stock with a burst cannon, still have jetpacks and have the ability to take an upgrade (BS4 anyone?) they can put out a lot of hurt. Most people see the fact that they have the night fight rules and as such should be long range... I see them as having night fight so they can get into range without being harassed, or do a good job of harassing (IE: Sit at 24", jump in 6... blast away... jump out 6 still 18" away after opponents turn, still need a 6 on 2d6 to see 'em)

Lesser Daemons in codex: Chaos Space Marines.

Cheap scoring units to hold objectives while the rest of your army does the fighting. Alternately, additional bodies which can pop in and immediately assault alongside one of your regular units.

at my flgs, Dakka Preds ... noone saw them coming

Grey Templar wrote:i definitly agree with TFCs being overlooked. sure they take up HS slots, but at lower point games they can be very nasty.


i am actually doing a little expieriement. i plan on taking 3 to, dare i say it, 'Ard Boyz

YOUR MAD!

Anyway, the BA tac squad. Sure, not as fancy as an assault squad, but if kitted right, can hold on to objectives like a boss.

And I feel like the Reculsarch dosen't get enough love, so him too.