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What would be a solid, all rounded fill for an IG army's heavy slots for tournament play?

Everyone seems to say manticores becuase they can sit behind a wall and wreak havoc not to mention they are rather strong. So I'll vote for manticores.

Leman Russ Squadrons. Pick your favorite tank and make 3.

Happygrunt wrote:Leman Russ Squadrons. Pick your favorite tank and make 3.

Unless you really like punishers or vanquishers (and to a lesser extent eradicators and exterminators) in which case you dont pick your favorite

the 9 cheapy lemans is something fun to play and absolutely hilarious to see a 2000 pt army with 6 battle tanks and 3 demolishers. Absolutely hilarious.

Competitively, so you have points to spend on some scoring units and something else in your army, 2x2 hydras and a manticore is 460 points and pretty hard hitting if your opponent thinks more about killing your vendettas or something, they could end up exposing themselves to hydra 72" 2x TL autocans.

Gonna vote for 2x2 hydras and a manticore. Serious penalties for your opponent exposing himself and a nice surprise on the range of those hydras to be put on a hill on the corner of a field.

I am assuming the way to go for tourney/competative play would be MEQ killers with the exception hydras right? Manitcores are good but they are always a gamble to get more than one hit (against tanks) and take up an entire slot. This worry comes from the threat of land raiders.

Kasrkin52 wrote:I am assuming the way to go for tourney/competative play would be MEQ killers with the exception hydras right? Manitcores are good but they are always a gamble to get more than one hit (against tanks) and take up an entire slot. This worry comes from the threat of land raiders.

Well, every other Artillery piece is only 1 blast for sure. and Against LR, the Str. 10 is pretty sweet...

Except 2 griffons which = the points of a manticore.

Personally i think manticores are good and i have run 2 in a list before but i love my demolishers!!

darkknightzach wrote:Except 2 griffons which = the points of a manticore.

Except 1 manticore is Str 10, both Griffons are still Str 6.....

The Maticore is a " huge boom/ boom" prospect, the Griffon is a "meh/ okay" prospect. It's nice against horde armies and GEQ but not much else.

I've never played in a large tournament (like a GT), but I've seen a lot of tournament lists that include a manticore and a squad with two hydras in it. The third is usually a toss-up between an executioner or another manticore or a squad of medusas.

If this is some sort of local tournamet (so you're not trying to cram 2000 point games into 2 hours), then I guess it just depends on your list. I mean, in my particular case, I'm going to a tournament in 2 weeks with NO heavy support choices. Once again, it just depends on what your list looks like, and what points level you're playing.

Nenya97 wrote:Gonna vote for 2x2 hydras and a manticore. Serious penalties for your opponent exposing himself and a nice surprise on the range of those hydras to be put on a hill on the corner of a field.

I second this...

Manticore

Manticore

2x Hydra

alarmingrick wrote:

darkknightzach wrote:Except 2 griffons which = the points of a manticore.

Except 1 manticore is Str 10, both Griffons are still Str 6.....

S6 wounds MEQ, GEQ, and all other T3/T4 units on a 2+, MEQ still get armor saves
S10 wounds MEQ, GEQ, and all other T3/T4 units on a 2+, MEQ still get armor saves

Unless FNP is involved going from S6 to S10 means nothing against infantry.

The reroll to hit from griffons make them deadlier against any infantry target without FNP


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anyhow I'm in the middle of converting some battlewagons into IG heavy support. Weapons/turrets will be magnetized so I can swap them back and forth. The one thing I wont' do is mix artillery and tanks, because as a conversion project the models might then look confusing to an opponent.

Idea#1
Basilisk
2 Griffins
Manticore

I like #1 because it's flexible and has a good variety of units. My main concern is the griffons and basilisk will look a little too similar.

Idea#2
Basilisk
Basilisk
Manticore

Idea #3
Leman Russ regular battle cannon
Leman Russ regular battle cannon
Leman Russ Demolisher

The wagons are pretty beefy models so they would probably look a bit better converted into tanks than artillery, so I'm probably going to go with tanks.

schadenfreude wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:

darkknightzach wrote:Except 2 griffons which = the points of a manticore.

Except 1 manticore is Str 10, both Griffons are still Str 6.....

S6 wounds MEQ, GEQ, and all other T3/T4 units on a 2+, MEQ still get armor saves
S10 wounds MEQ, GEQ, and all other T3/T4 units on a 2+, MEQ still get armor saves

Unless FNP is involved going from S6 to S10 means nothing against infantry.

The reroll to hit from griffons make them deadlier against any infantry target without FNP

Except S10 insta-kills T1-T5 models, as its double their toughness. No armor saves are allowed.

#2 or #3, depending on what the rest of your list looks like.

The right HS choices really depend on the rest of your army, and what you want your HS slots to accomplish. My mech IG army runs this:

3x Hydra: 3x Hull Heavy Flamer
2x Medusa: 2x Hull Heavy Flamer
1x Manticore: 1x Hull Heavy Flamer

I get great firepower against transports, skimmers and infantry of all kinds, as well as decent firepower against heavy armor (str10 ordnance is pretty solid). I also have 6 vehicles packed in, which gives me strong board presence. I of course have to deal with the pros and cons of having vehicles squadrons, but take that as you will. It's the price you pay to get more of the big guns

I make the choices this way because they address things that the rest of the army might have a problem with, or areas where I would like further support. I don't need the security of AV14 (Russes... my 2k point list runs 15 vehicles) because of the nature of my list, so I'd much rather have as many guns as I can get.

I run with:

2x hydras
2x Medusa, 1x basilisk
1 Manticore

schadenfreude wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:

darkknightzach wrote:Except 2 griffons which = the points of a manticore.

Except 1 manticore is Str 10, both Griffons are still Str 6.....

S6 wounds MEQ, GEQ, and all other T3/T4 units on a 2+, MEQ still get armor saves
S10 wounds MEQ, GEQ, and all other T3/T4 units on a 2+, MEQ still get armor saves

Unless FNP is involved going from S6 to S10 means nothing against infantry.

The reroll to hit from griffons make them deadlier against any infantry target without FNP


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Anyhow I'm in the middle of converting some battlewagons into IG heavy support. Weapons/turrets will be magnetized so I can swap them back and forth. The one thing I wont' do is mix artillery and tanks, because as a conversion project the models might then look confusing to an opponent.

Idea#1
Basilisk
2 Griffins
Manticore

I like #1 because it's flexible and has a good variety of units. My main concern is the griffons and basilisk will look a little too similar.

Idea#2
Basilisk
Basilisk
Manticore

Idea #3
Leman Russ regular battle cannon
Leman Russ regular battle cannon
Leman Russ Demolisher

The wagons are pretty beefy models so they would probably look a bit better converted into tanks than artillery, so I'm probably going to go with tanks.

I was looking at it as an anitvehicle role too. not just against troops. Given their "Tie" when it comes your provided stats, wouldn't the Manticore's ability
to hurt just about everything vehicle make it better all around. all IMHO.

edit because i can't spell...

Caffran9 wrote:
3x Hydra: 3x Hull Heavy Flamer
2x Medusa: 2x Hull Heavy Flamer
1x Manticore: 1x Hull Heavy Flamer

so I'd much rather have as many guns as I can get.

Then why not take Heavy Bolters? If the units don't shift then you can fire a massive amount of hot bolt at your opponent as well. The nature of these tanks is to sit back and fling the bullets... if your using Heavy Flamers with them on a regular basis your doing something very unorthodox or being over-run!

@ 1500 I'd roll w/ 2 hydras, 1 manticore
@ 1750 up it to 2 hydras, 2 manticore

alarmingrick wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:

darkknightzach wrote:Except 2 griffons which = the points of a manticore.

Except 1 manticore is Str 10, both Griffons are still Str 6.....

S6 wounds MEQ, GEQ, and all other T3/T4 units on a 2+, MEQ still get armor saves
S10 wounds MEQ, GEQ, and all other T3/T4 units on a 2+, MEQ still get armor saves

Unless FNP is involved going from S6 to S10 means nothing against infantry.

The reroll to hit from griffons make them deadlier against any infantry target without FNP


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Anyhow I'm in the middle of converting some battlewagons into IG heavy support. Weapons/turrets will be magnetized so I can swap them back and forth. The one thing I wont' do is mix artillery and tanks, because as a conversion project the models might then look confusing to an opponent.

Idea#1
Basilisk
2 Griffins
Manticore

I like #1 because it's flexible and has a good variety of units. My main concern is the griffons and basilisk will look a little too similar.

Idea#2
Basilisk
Basilisk
Manticore

Idea #3
Leman Russ regular battle cannon
Leman Russ regular battle cannon
Leman Russ Demolisher

The wagons are pretty beefy models so they would probably look a bit better converted into tanks than artillery, so I'm probably going to go with tanks.

I was looking at it as an anitvehicle role too. not just against troops. Given their "Tie" when it comes your provided stats, wouldn't the Manticore's ability
to hurt just about everything vehicle make it better all around. all IMHO.

edit because i can't spell...

It all depends on the rest of your list.

Basilisks are the best meq killer ape indirect=no cover unless in it, no save, no fnp unless natural t5

Griffons are better than manticores against infantry for above stated reasons.

Manticores are really good against vehicles str 10 v side armor is no joke, which is why they are so popular even though griffons and basilisks are better infantry killers. The manticore can do a lot of multiple jobs well, much like chaos oblits. The ability to multiple jobs well costs xtra points so ask the question:do I have enough anti tant? I think a list with 3 vendettas and plenty of melta guns is fine without a manticore, but an xtra manticore that isn't needed against tanks is still a decent unit against infantry.

Happygrunt wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:

darkknightzach wrote:Except 2 griffons which = the points of a manticore.

Except 1 manticore is Str 10, both Griffons are still Str 6.....

S6 wounds MEQ, GEQ, and all other T3/T4 units on a 2+, MEQ still get armor saves
S10 wounds MEQ, GEQ, and all other T3/T4 units on a 2+, MEQ still get armor saves

Unless FNP is involved going from S6 to S10 means nothing against infantry.

The reroll to hit from griffons make them deadlier against any infantry target without FNP

Except S10 insta-kills T1-T5 models, as its double their toughness. No armor saves are allowed.

lolwut?

Marines still get their armor save.

Ailaros wrote:I've never played in a large tournament (like a GT), but I've seen a lot of tournament lists that include a manticore and a squad with two hydras in it. The third is usually a toss-up between an executioner or another manticore or a squad of medusas.

If this is some sort of local tournamet (so you're not trying to cram 2000 point games into 2 hours), then I guess it just depends on your list. I mean, in my particular case, I'm going to a tournament in 2 weeks with NO heavy support choices. Once again, it just depends on what your list looks like, and what points level you're playing.

That's the main reason why I think ig is the best written 5th ed codex.

Troops, fa, and el are good enough ig can compete without hs.
Tr, hs, and el the same applies to no fa
And the same goes for el

Ig can cut any force org other than hq/tr and the list is still competitive.

Nenya97 wrote:the 9 cheapy lemans is something fun to play and absolutely hilarious to see a 2000 pt army with 6 battle tanks and 3 demolishers. Absolutely hilarious.

Competitively, so you have points to spend on some scoring units and something else in your army, 2x2 hydras and a manticore is 460 points and pretty hard hitting if your opponent thinks more about killing your vendettas or something, they could end up exposing themselves to hydra 72" 2x TL autocans.

Gonna vote for 2x2 hydras and a manticore. Serious penalties for your opponent exposing himself and a nice surprise on the range of those hydras to be put on a hill on the corner of a field.

If you're fielding Vendettas, you don't really need four Hydras. 2x Hydras and 2x Manticores can work very well, especially if you have 2-3 Vendettas.

I used to swap out one of the Manticores (or the Hydras if I brought HWSs) for an Executioner, but nowadays I rather take multiple russes or not at all (and take LRBT w/ plasma sponsons when I do).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Caffran9 wrote:
3x Hydra: 3x Hull Heavy Flamer.

Hydraes are the only instance in the heavy support section that I would advocate the hull heavy bolter, as it goes very well with the primary weapon. If there aren't any tanks to shoot, they make for excellent infantry shredders.

I like Option #2, Option #1 is cool and would earn Ballsy points though.

Scadenfreude:

Ig can cut any force org other than hq/tr and the list is still competitive.

Have you ever played against Power Blob IG? Just wondering as it appears they arent a threat to you. Whats your expereince been like?

WHy not option 4?

3x bassalisks- heavy bolters
2x manticore- same

thats all 3 slots. or all artilery?
option5,

3x basalisks
3x bassalisks/ or mix of medusa and griffin
1x medusa.

OPTION SUCK- do this if your slowed
3x deathlaunch missle launchers.

geordie09 wrote:

Caffran9 wrote:
3x Hydra: 3x Hull Heavy Flamer
2x Medusa: 2x Hull Heavy Flamer
1x Manticore: 1x Hull Heavy Flamer

so I'd much rather have as many guns as I can get.

Then why not take Heavy Bolters? If the units don't shift then you can fire a massive amount of hot bolt at your opponent as well. The nature of these tanks is to sit back and fling the bullets... if your using Heavy Flamers with them on a regular basis your doing something very unorthodox or being over-run!

Not quite... the ranged anti-horde isn't actually too stunning and the Heavy Bolters don't make up the difference well enough. I end up with 12 Heavy Flamers in the army, and once things get close, they end up taking massive amounts of wounds. Aside from the big blasts, there isn't much in the list that's really good at killing Horde stuff, so I need insurance. For example, when those two huge units of Genestealers smack the front line of my vehicles on turn 2, the second needs to kill them super fast. Heavy Flamers do this very well.

kaiservonhugal wrote:

Ig can cut any force org other than hq/tr and the list is still competitive.

Have you ever played against Power Blob IG? Just wondering as it appears they arent a threat to you. Whats your expereince been like?

Actually, that's his point. IG can with games with just HQ and troops. That and there are good enough competitive choices in every other FO slot in the codex, unlike other armies.