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I am looking to start commision painting. At the moment I am unemployed and thought it would be a nice time to test the waters. In any of your experiences have you got any jobs from here? Or where would I start? Also Would just painting some extra figs I have at the moment and putting them for sale be an okay option? I know that I would probably would have to do basic color schemes to reach a broader audience. Just looking for some good tips and such on how to get this started. Thanks in advance

Im going to watch this withinterest as im going to start a section on my website offering already painted minis for sale a well as commision work.

I was thinking of keeping in stock one of each of the basic game boxes all painted up for a start.

My question to you would be how well can you paint fast? Then I would tell you to start your own website to show off what you can do and provide some basic information like cost and time it takes you to finish models. You should also pay to advertise on sites like theminiaturespage.com to reach a broader audience.

What you have going against you is that a lot of people don't want to use a painter that doesn't have a reputation as it is pretty easy to get ripped off. So you would need to build up a reputation for good service and honesty before you would start getting a lot of commissions.

I can paint fairly fast and well. I have good feedback as a trader on another site suchs as bartertown and I also have excellent FB rating as a Ebay buyer and seller. The advertising on sites is not a viable option atm until I get some cash in as I am currently unemployed. I wonder if any of the people I use to play games with such as D&D minis and such is on here and would be able to vouche for me in some way. I guess the hardest part is gettign the foot in the door. That is another reason I was thinking of jsut painting some mini's posting them for sale and hopefully start getting a name for myself..Also I am looking for trades to hopefully get people more comfortable with my name. Allot of things to think about for sure

Lots to consider and ive alredy taken the plunge and im working on my first project. Its the new Warhammer tower, i will post some WIP photos here.

As for speed i enjoy working in batches which i find makes things quicker. Im also getting myself a new airbrush soon and i plan to offer that as a service.

I already have a ecommerce website up and running for my main buisness so it would not be to much hassle to add the models to that. It would also remove some of the worry about payment as i have a full SSC and use the Google checkout system.

Painting up what you already have is a good start.
I suggest painting it in the "flavor of the month."

Got some Space Marine tacticals? Paint them up as Ultramarines or Blood Angels.

Got fantasy figures? Paint those suckers up, too. There's always a market for painted characters and (popular) monsters for D&D.

You can try listing them in the swap-shop here, just to test the waters. You'll probably get more hits on prepainted stuff on ebay, though. paint-to-order models will go better on Dakka.

Good luck with it.

Eric

Thank you. Iwill definatly post here when things get going.

Its about speed and quality. If you are unemployed then you need to dedicate 8 hours a day to your commisions. Take a look at this guy and the speed he does it in.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330547.page

Well, keep in mind that he's obviously making heavy use of an airbrush.
-Not that it's a bad thing, mind you.
So, comparing yourself to someone doing 1500 points is 5 days isn't fair, unless you're using the same tools.

He does do nice work, though...


Eric

Yeah, MM makes a point, but remember that it is all about finding your niche. You prolly would have a hell of a time competeing with the guy who has investment in airbrush, compressor, and the time needed to get "pro" level skillz; However you wouldnt (probably) be charging the same rates as well.

One up side is thast there are plenty of other painting services for you to examine to help you determine a price/turn around time/quality level you can reliably keep up and that sets you apart from the pack.

One down side is that it is less a pack and more a HORDE of other painters out there trying to do the same. Thats a lot of competition. What is going to make you different? What do you do that others do not? Are you cheaper? More reliable? Faster? Some combination of the three that no one else/few others offer?

I'm not in business for myself so take all that with the appropriate grains of salt (hey; this is the internet after all!), but it IS something for oyu to think about.

grizgrin wrote:One down side is that it is less a pack and more a HORDE of other painters out there trying to do the same. Thats a lot of competition. What is going to make you different? What do you do that others do not? Are you cheaper? More reliable? Faster? Some combination of the three that no one else/few others offer?

For various reasons, I've had the opportunity to meet and get to know (even if only via the internet) a lot of painters.

There is one, main, mitigating factor that I think is the BIGGEST influence on success: Reputation.

You have to earn it, build it, nurture it and maintain it. If you falter on any one of these steps, at any time, you run the risk of ruining everything.

First, forget that you have a lot of competition. Forget it. It's no less true, but you can't do anything about it. Do not look at them as competition. Look at them as resources.
Look at what is being offered and for what prices. You HAVE to be competitive in your pricing. You don't have to be the cheapest... In fact, you SHOULDN'T be... but you don't want to charge $10 for a $5 job, either.
Look at reputations. GMM Studios, for example, is not the cheapest around. For what he does, though (whole armies at a time), he's among the top of the heap. Look at what makes him that way. He does not overpromise and under-deliver. he keeps his word. he keeps in communication. He does not try to "rush" things to make people happy. With him, you know exactly what you're getting into. You know where you sit "in queue," and he is always available for his customers. Make an inquiry, and you get a quick response.
BlueTable Painting, too... Regardless what you think about their painting (some hate it, some love it), they have a top notch reputation for all the same reasons.
Look at painters and others who take commission work. RedStarOne is a sculptor/modeller who does fantastic work, but absolutely ruined his reputation by over promising, not delivering, delivering late, ignoring communications when behind, and continuing to take new jobs (and money) when months (AND MONTHS) behind on other people's work. He's never going to work for commissions again. Not for anyone who knows who he is, anyway.
(THIS WAS MEANT TO ILLUSTRATE A POINT, NOT TO SLAM MATTHEW [RSO]. PLEASE, NOBODY TURN THIS INTO A "SLAM RSO" THREAD)
So, get to know yourself and your envoronment.

Once you know what you have to do... get out there and do it.
Someone posts that they're looking for a painter to paint "X"? Send that guy a message. Tell him you want his business. Follow up with him once a week or so to let him know you're still interested. Promise no more than you can deliver, and deliver MORE than you promise. Make sure you have plenty of images of your work that you can supply. Plenty of GOOD images, that is. Crappy things you took with your cell phone do NOT lend weight to the "professional" image you're trying to portay.
Don't have a camera? Talk to your mom, brother, sister, friend, neighbor, etc. SOMEONE has a camera you can borrow.

Keep working at it. Practice diligent customer service.
Eventually, your reputation will grow by word of mouth. Don't settle for just that. When you get a job here, make sure they report you on the "Reputable Trades" thread. Make sure they mention your quality/turn around/etc. Don't be too proud. Tell them you're trying to establish yourself as a painter, and you'd appreciate it if they'd say a few kind words about you when posting in that thread on you (before doing this, make sure they're satisfied with your work )

If you want to do this, YOU have to do it. You can't expect it to fall into your lap. You have to nurture it. If you ruin it, you'll ruin your reputation as a painter and can seriously damage your online reputation, in general.


Eric

Eric,
Thank you for your sound advice there. To me alot of that is comman sense and ive learnt alot from running my own buisness already. There is lots of sound advice there to anyone and one other bit id offer from a buisness perspective is you can never advertise to much. There will always be people out there who have never herd of you before.

All good advice. I have had some work done by GMMStudios as and satisfied with his work. Very good communication! Now I need to get some more pictures of what I have done.

How much $/hour over say, 3 months, are these guys actually earning? Has anyone gotten real honest specifics about materials and time from someone who has sold several armies?

A few people in my old gaming circle do commission work on the side. They do not run a front end web site nor do they advertise. All word of mouth based on reputation of the people they have done work for being willing to tell others.

I know both of them did a few small squads from several armies and gaming systems in different painting styles. They took pictures of them and used them as a visual resume of what they have done and are capable of. Each of them only plays one or two armies and did work for next to nothing for people who would allow them to prep, prime and paint a squad on loan. Once the painting and pictures were done they returned the squad painted.

MikeMcSomething wrote:How much $/hour over say, 3 months, are these guys actually earning? Has anyone gotten real honest specifics about materials and time from someone who has sold several armies?

I don't think any of them have really said.
If I asked you how much money you make a year, would you be comfortable divulging that in a public forum... or having me do it, after you've told me in private? Same thing applies.

The fact is that, for most painters, you cannot look at it on a "per hour" earning basis. In fact, if you do, you'll be quite disappointed.
Many painters look at their weekly/monthly salaries. Yes. Those painters are probably working longer hours than others in that salary range, but there's a trade off there, too, as far as making your own schedule, working from home, etc.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:

MikeMcSomething wrote:How much $/hour over say, 3 months, are these guys actually earning? Has anyone gotten real honest specifics about materials and time from someone who has sold several armies?

I don't think any of them have really said.
If I asked you how much money you make a year, would you be comfortable divulging that in a public forum... or having me do it, after you've told me in private? Same thing applies.

The fact is that, for most painters, you cannot look at it on a "per hour" earning basis. In fact, if you do, you'll be quite disappointed.
Many painters look at their weekly/monthly salaries. Yes. Those painters are probably working longer hours than others in that salary range, but there's a trade off there, too, as far as making your own schedule, working from home, etc.

Eric

So you don't know, but it's probably complete crap?

I would suggest before putting a lot of time/money into setting up any form of business that you post some pics of things you have painted on this and other forums to get some feedback on your skills/style.

Do people like your finished work?

What are they nitpicking?

What do they say they like?

What do they dislike?

Would people be willing to pay for figs done this way?

etc.

etc.


You may find people are impressed and like your work, and you know to investigate such a business further.

You may also find that the overall response is less than positive or that interest is low, and you know this before spending a bunch of time/effort for nothing...

Good luck, and post some pics.

So you don't know, but it's probably complete crap?

You're about halfway right.

I think that some of the better/more popular painters (like GMM Studios) probably make a decent, "middle-class" living.
There's something VERY positive to be said about making a "middle class" living by doing something you love, as opposed to making more money for doing a job you hate. You know?

For most painters, though? Yeah. Complete crap.

Eric

If I could make a decent middle-class living working out of my house and being able to completely schedule my work around my kids and life AND still be scheduling work a year or more out like some of these cats do, I would be one very happy camper.

You don't make much money commission painting, unless you're really up there in the big leagues. It's something you do to make some money on the side while you do something you enjoy. Don't try to live on it.

B SRM is the voice of reason here, and he's got a valid point.
If you go into it expecting to make a living off of it, you're more likely going to be disappointed than not. More "professional" painters fail than succeed.

That said, if you've got the drive, desire, skill, patience and tools, it *is* possible to make a living at it. This much is evidenced by GMM Studios, Blue Table Painting (and their respective hired painters) and others I may have forgotten to mention.

Eric

Don't quit your day job!!

You can actually earn a fair salary from comission painting - although it IS hard work. I have over ten 2k pts alpha level armies from GMM studios and I'll echo what others have said.

Clear-communication
Always delivering on your promise
Good reputation

When you have the above 3 qualities, customers are more willing to part with their hard earned monies.

Brandon from GMM is one of them rare humans with mutant powers. He churns out a 2k pts army PER WEEK. He does this on a weekly basis without sacrificing quality.

Having said the above, there are 2 lines you can pursue:

1) High quality, daemon level work: charges > USD 200 per model

2) Army painter

Item 2 has less competition but many studios also burn out from the amount of work they need to do week in/week out. I speak from bitter experience, that I am willing to pay more for peace of mind.

Just to share that there is an upside, you typically have to wait around 4 to 6 months for a GMM commission as Brandon's schedule is PACKED. It took him roughly 6 months to get to this exalted position and he used free tools such as youtube and ebay to get his work out.

One of the most hardworking people I know and a sound businessman.

On the flip side, my wallet hates him.

It took Brandon longer than 6 months to get to where he is.
He's been plugging away at this for years.
Agreed that he's one of the top army painters in the market. Plus, he's a great guy to boot.

Sorry... OT...

Also, not everything he used is free. Feebay takes a cut from you, whether you sell or not. He has also paid to advertise on *ahem* at least one web site in the past.
Not to mention the costs associated with running a web site.

You've got to spend money to make money and, as a commission painter, if you're only utilizing free resources you're seriously hobbling yourself.

Eric