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Hi everyone,

My first thread so a quick hello is in order first...

HELLO!

Now that's done, looking for some advice on my new Vampire Counts army list. I've not played a game properly in a good few years (I'm mainly a modeller/converter/budding painter) so it's a very basic list.

Characters: 495pts

Vampire Lord
Helm of Command
Lord of the Dead
250 pts


Vampire Hero
Flayed Hauberk
Walking Death
Sword of Battle
165 pts


Necromancer
Sceptre of Noirot
80 pts


Core: 302 pts

Skeleton Warriors x 9
Full Command
92 pts

Skeleton Warriors x 10
Full Command
100 pts

Skeleton Warriors x 10
Full Command
Spears
110 pts


Special: 174 pts

Grave Guard x 12
Full Command
174 pts


971 pts Total



Considerations:

It may be too focused on keeping the skeletons alive. Which is fine unless the opposing player has something really tough. Could the killing blow rule on the Grave Guard be relied upon against things with high toughness?

The Vampire Lord is to be held back behind the front line of skeletons and zombies raised by the Necromancer. Lord will be trying to keep the Skeleton Warrior units full strength and higher and using his Helm to give them or the Grave Guard weapon skill 7 :-D

Should I take the Vampire Hero or Necromancer out and strengthen the Grave Guard maybe? They can't be raised beyond their starting size. I was thinking of making it a 20 or 25 strong unit for bigger games anyway. Another possibility is giving a Vampire accompanying that unit Blood Drinker (the magic sword) - heals a wound for each unsaved wound caused?

Also, should the Grave Guard have great weapons? Great weapons plus casting Danse Macabre on them looks like a nice move and would really help against tougher units while the skeletons and zombies whittle down anything that's less elite but numerous.

Maybe these ideas are better implemented in an army of higher points. There's not much to work with in 1000 points.


Any suggestions, comments, etc would be really welcome!

Thanks for reading,
Chris

I'm no expert but a few things.

Where is your BSB? You really will want one in 8th edition.

I'm a bit worried your skeleton units are a bit small (units of 9, 10 and 10)?

Grave Guard should have GW, and yes the KB aspect is very useful.

Thank you for the advice.

I forgot about a battle standard, I was going to give the Grave Guard Banner of the Barrows (+1 to hit in close combat for Grave Guard, Black Knights and Wight Kings in the unit)but forgot, will have to squeeze it in somewhere - perhaps will give it to the combat Vampire Hero.

The idea was to stay put on the first turn and just use Invocation of Nehek as much as possible to raise them past their starting amount, maybe use Raise Dead to make some zombies in front of the other units to stall the enemy charges until I can get the Skellies at least one reasonable cast each.

Arg! I converted some Grave Guard from Chaos Warriors (I'm really going to town on the conversions with this army) and have already given them hand weapon and shield on the miniature :-s how important is it to give them GW would you say?

What is the KB aspect?

Welcome Truemind. Make sure you read the forum rules especially when it comes to posting point cost for items. You can list the total points for a unit or character but not for specific items. Ie

Vampire Lord
Helm of command
Lord of the Dead
250pts

Now to the list. At 1000 PTA I would stay away from a Lord and stick with a regular vamp or second necro. Your skeleton units are too small. They are unfortunately not the best core troops and should never be fielded in units smaller than 20 at this level and 24-30 at larger point games. Consider just using 2 units and by dropping the lord will allow you to up your numbers of both skellies and GG

Hi there,

Whoops! I'll change it right away.

Thanks for the advice. I'll have another think and revise it.

Would you suggest taking zombies or ghouls as the core choices instead? Neither of them have any armour :-s

Is it a bad tactic to take small units or skeletons and expect to be able to increase their numbers in the first couple of turns?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is my revised list, see what you think:

CHARACTERS (Heroes) - 250

140 - Vamp Hero - + Lord of the Dead + Flayed Hauberk

55 - Necromancer

55 - Necromancer


CORE - 363

172 - Skeleton Warriors x 19 + Full command

191 - Skeleton Warriors x 19 + Full command + Spears


SPECIAL - 210

210 Grave Guard x 15 + Full command


RARE - 175

175 - Varghulf


TOTAL - 998



Still no Battle Standard Bearer but if I make the Vampire one then a Necromancer would be a bit too squishy for a general wouldn't it? The alternative, two Vampire heroes with only 25 points to spend on wargear/powers each, didn't appeal.

Think it's an improvement anyway, I squeezed a Varghulf in, yay!

The Skeleton Warriors are meant to keep the Necromancers company, even if they cower at the back or on a corner to avoid being attacked.

Now I've been playing VC for quite some time now and long ago then started back up recently. I currently have in my collection:

Manfred

Vamp Lord

3 Necros

Varghulf

5 blood knights

20 gravegaurd

2 spirit hosts

20 dire wolves

60 skeletons

80 z's

30 ghouls

2 corpse carts

I switch up my army play all the time to learn for myself what i think (fortunate to have so much to play with) Ghouls have poisoned attacks and are devestating but remember you cant take any core units under 20 MININUM. the name of the game is dont let the unit die (our cores are all whimpy in low numbers...10 ghouls die on 2nd turn you need 20 so you have a few left over to IoN...once they dead you cant do that lolz). now i really do not care what nobody says. I love my spear/shield skele's. in a block of 60. its a great what i call "lockup" unit. (i.e. charge a powerful unit and keep it occupied for 4 phases (if ya dont IoN them). same with my 80 z's(a lockup unit) i use them to occupy powerful units. i use my vampire lord with helm of commandment and arm him with fencers blades which gives him ws 10. the name of the game here is vampires. i love my varghulf for running block withmy dire wolves. they great for intercepting people who are attacking your general. if your general dies it kindasucks. the helm of commandment on the skeletons make thedevestating with the 3rd row attack. wolves (20 at least...or they die to fast and wont take anything out) are nice to charge in to archers/mages.I send a varghulf with them usually. but i would take blood knights over a varghulf if i had to choose. because you get 5 vampires. thats 5 more channel dice, 5 more spells, 5 more attempts at IoN and so on. you cant just have 1 necro cause if i fails a spell your screwed (we rely on magic) btw dont worry about no armor on ghouls (thats what IoN is for..bring back 3-5 guys in a spell usually acts like ure armor save...i.e. good spread of vamps as combat medics) btw core core core. ido more damage with my large core blocks than anything else. i'd play prolly 2 necros, 4 blood knights. as of core, im a firm believer in large units and lots of core. my army sucked till i ramped up the cores.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
h yeah....and lots of movement trays (modular are the bomb diggity)

Kiwidru was trying out a 1000 point list with some similarities. I think you could drop a necro to bulk out your remaining heroes. Here's what he did for his hero setup:

H: Vampire (To'sun): Lord of the Dead, Helm of Command, Avatar of Death
H: Necromancer: Invocation, Vanhel's, Black Perapt

Also, I think the latest FAQ may have made it once again necessary to use a vampire as your general, though I'm not certain. I'd check myself, but my VC army book is on loan to a friend. Here's the quote:

Page 88 – Army List Entries
Ignore everything on this page, except for the second
paragraph in the Choosing Characters section, and use the
rules for ‘Choosing Your Army’ in the Warhammer rulebook.

As mentioned, here is this list I'm currently running @1k: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/327127.page#2176494

Very similar in style... I use knights instead of varg, but whatevs. You will find that all the extra necro brings in this edition is an extra channel attempt, as you could chain cast from one just as easily, and buy any necro spell for a savings of 40 points (if you are bringing him for spell variety). The hauberk is useful, but your general is just to valuable compaired to other armies to be risking in combat...
I generally add a bsb with hauberk in larger games, and that is a great fit... But at this points value, I think vc optimize with a vamp+necro combo for heros

You invested to much in Characters. Half your points are tied up with 3 guys. Seriously get some more core troops


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blood knights are as hard as hell to assemble. Sorry thats kinda unrelated

Well, that's a key problem with the VC, no? They've got expensive characters (who are more important to their army than any other general), but benefit from lots o' dudes.

So...suggestions:

-I too second the dropping of a necromancer.
-As for a BSB...how useful are they to the VC, again?
-Varghulf's are cool, but those points could go to bigger units. What's the minimum size on a Wraith unit? At 1,000 points, a single Banshee might be pretty neat.
-The GW on your GG would be helpful, but a 4+/6+ will make them last significantly longer against low-to-average S troops, which means there will be less pressure on your casters to raise 'em up.

Finally, about the minimum unit size: I used to see people take units of 10 skeletons and ghouls in 7th (and I hated it), and the idea of Invoking them to full size is still...possible. But you have less power dice, and your opponents have more dispel dice, and, most importantly, units should be big in 8th, so raising your 10-strong unit to 20 is still not enough. From 20 to 30 or 30 to 40, however, is much better.

Yeah I played 2k game against my friend playing my lizmen army. the only thing im fielding for hq is a V lord with Helm of Commandment and Fencers blade (project ws 10 to any unit). I take Vampiric powers Forbidden Lore (all spells from one lore except lore of life) and i choose lore of beasts (for savage beast of horrors +3 S/+3 A and panns inpen pelt +3 T) casting this on the varghulf is devistating (makes him 8 attacks @ ws 10/S8/T8 with hated to reroll failed to hits in first round of combat. I have bailed on my necro's because running the blood knights gives you lvl 1 wizards. warpsolution is right. it reallycomes down to the numbers again. i had (i knowits nuts) 80 zombies @ a fairly high cost for a weak unit. But it lastest 5 phases without casting IoN once. it locked up 5 kroxigors and 15 spearsaurus'. (the spears worked em down) but in turn i was able to manuever my varghulf, 20 dire wolves, my V lord (yes i throw my general in combat like a mofo), and 60 skele's and took out 15 temple gaurd, 15 saurus's, 12 chameleon skinks, and the slaan mage by the time the got killed. i marched em horde form andblocked the kroxi's, 1 unit of 15 saurus (they engaged me) and i forced 1 unit of saurus to head around them (which was pretty far cause the unit blocked 13" of battlefield. south of my zombies to the single unit to get around my 5 bk's, 20 ghouls, 20 GG. I need to really ploay 30 ghouls and 30 gg to be safe. 20 is cutting it close cause in 1 round of combat they can very well almost whipe out my ghouls but with IoN i can save em.

Yeah, unlike 7th, zombies are actually a unit you'll occasionally see deployed via normal means, rather than just Raise Dead.

Also, I know there was a lengthy discussion about whether or not the "vampire" rule grants Blood Knights status as wizards, and the conclusion was that they don't. I can't site anything, though.

I just played a Vamp list, and it seems that the Lord with the Helm + Fencer's is a pretty common thing (on Grave Guard + great weapons + Banner of the Barrows, for 2+ and 2+, usually). It was brutal, but not overly survivable. Tougher than some, but they packed a gigantic punch.

Warpsolution wrote:Yeah, unlike 7th, zombies are actually a unit you'll occasionally see deployed via normal means, rather than just Raise Dead.

You will? I guess I heard about in podcasts, but I don't really see what you get.

I just played a Vamp list, and it seems that the Lord with the Helm + Fencer's is a pretty common thing (on Grave Guard + great weapons + Banner of the Barrows, for 2+ and 2+, usually). It was brutal, but not overly survivable. Tougher than some, but they packed a gigantic punch.

Yeah these guys are absurd. Van Hel's on top of all that for extra ridiculosity...