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Okay this came up earlier and I really am unsure if I played it right. If I didn't it might have gone my Brother's way instead.

The game was into turn 7; speed freak orks vs marines. Calgar and 5 shooty termis (2 chainfists and assault cannon) hand dropped in and were shooting things. I closed in with 3 squads of roughly 9 boyz each and a lone biker nob. This is where it gets messy. From the Multiple Combat ruling I assumed that if he hit a unit and killed it, he could no longer attack another unit that runs into him on the same turn. So I threw my biker nob at the squad - the termi sarge missed him while Calgar used his sword to kill him. So then I charge the boyz squads in. Now at this point I wasn't sure if all the models can attack or not, so we said the other termis who hadn't hit the biker nob can hit the boyz from any squad, providing they were still alive. However they gotten beaten to death before they could attack, and so did Calgar from the nob klaws.

So did we play this right or wrong?

Sounds like you are charging one unit in fighting CC and then charging the next unit in.

You make all charges then you start fighting in CC. Models with the highest Init strike first and must place their attack on models in base contact (if they have two or more units in B2B then you may spread out the attacks as you see fit); otherwise they may place their attacks on any model thats in B2B with someone in their unit (within 2") ... then repeat with the next Init group untill they're all done.

Yes, as above - you have to make ALL assault moves you want to make *at the same time* - so you would have to charge the biker nob and all 3 squads in, if you wanted all 4 squads to fight.

So bascialyl I just have just thrown everybody that I wanted to assault, into assault, instead of one at a time. Hmm, could of lost a max of what 7 guys before I krumped him...

Yep, you throw everyone into assault that you want to throw into assault that turn. You dont assault with one unit, resolve it, assault with another unit , resolve it, and so on...

Something like that.

Order of operations is:
1) Declare all assaults
2) Move all assaulting models into position(or don't move them at all if the closest model cannot reach)
3) defender moves all models in assaulted units not in Base-to-base with enemy models to try and get into base to base.
4) Determine who all get to attack
5)Start Making attacks begining at I10, and working your way down to I1
6) Determine assault results
7) Losing Side starts taking Ld tests(Fearless auto Pass)
8) Units failing their ld test go to run(Sweeping advance is performed, if available); Fearless units take no retreat wounds
9) Pile in is performed(Consolidation for any Units that no Longer have any models in base to base with enemy units).

Did i miss anything?

Be mindful about the most you would have lost, he is allowed to split his attacks across the squads, and will probably have to.

Conceivably you could have lost as many models as he has attacks if he hit the jackpot.

yes but at most he could have cuased 7 power weapon wounds before I got to hit him. We didn't allow these becaues we were unsure of the ruling, and as such he had 100 normal attacks on his termis, which they failed 7 armour saves.

Regardless, next time I'll remember to stick with "everybody hits at once".

But; While He could have easily Wiped the opposition(Based on shear # of attacks), the opposition would have had to split their responsive attacks(Every model in Base-to-base with a different unit would have had to attack the unit it is in Base-to Base with). So while he could have lost, what 13 models, those 13 would have most likely been from 2 or 3 different squads, and none of those squads would flee or suffer any further damage/negatives after the Termies and Calgar are gone.

Hitting on 4+, wounding on 4+ and saving on 2+ means you need 24 S4 attacks to kill a single Terminator. 100 attacks may not be enough when he can also stack a few on Calgar and play some neat wound allocation tricks having 4 unique models in place.

Either way, being charged by 30 orks is never a good thing.

well it'd be hard to stack them on calgar wouldn't it after all he is an IC and would have to be targeted to hit, and with an assault this scale it sounds like calgar would argueably live, and (autopass his morale)

it was 25 cc boyz with 4 attacks each. 100 attacks, 53 of those hit, 36 of those wounded, and 7 armour saves failed on the termis. None were aimed at Calgar - I threw the PKs at him instead. He lost all 4 wounds in that turn of combat from the klaws (12 attacks, 9 hits, 8 wounds, 4 failed saves).

Some of them would almost certainly have to hit calgar, if amy were in btb with him.

agreed, but with that many boys it's hard to tell how many could actually get in and swing. It was aparently 3 lucky nobz

Which seems very surprising, as that means 3 different units boyz / nobs ALL had to get into btb with marneus.

Which is why charging all at the same time is important. Chance are good that, unless perfectly surrounded AND spaced out nicely one unit would not have been able to contact.

in combat i got to designate wounds since Calgar is an IC. SO I chose to throw the entire bunch of normal attacks on the termis (better chance to kill them all) and the klaws at Calgar (one guy and a weaker save, better odds).

Incorrect. Please read the rules for ICs and combats, page 49, which state they are a separate unit in CC.

ONLY those models in btb with Marneus OR within 2" of Marneus (AND NOT in btb with the terminators) are allowed to hit him.

Those in btb with Marneus AND NOT in btb with a terminator MUST hit Marneus

As I said: the only way that ONLY the powerklaws can hit Marneus is if they are in btb with marneus and ONLY marneus.

"ONLY those models in btb with Marneus OR within 2" of Marneus (AND NOT in btb with the terminators) are allowed to hit him. "

Not 2" of Marneus, 2" of a model in Base-to-base with Marneus; which can be 3 or more inches of Marneus(depending on base size of the one in B2B, and direction)

Also those in BtB with Marneus and a termie can choose which to attack; Marneus or termies

... wait I thought that because he's part of the unit it wouldn't matter whether I was in BtB with him alone or not.

Then again it wouldn't matter so much since the other termis were removed first so the klaws got to him anyway (and struck afterwards).

wrong again, they need to be in BTB or they wouldnt be able to swing ... positioning is key in this game ... and playing orks it's something you will have to remember

If the Klaws were in position to strike only the unit, even if you evaporated the unit the klaws cannot swing at Marneus. Also, there is a huge advantage to charging the way you did for wound allocation that dramatically increases the kill rate.

With 34 wounds on the Terminators, each individual would get ~6 wounds so each wound group would have to fail greater than or equal to the number of models in the wound group to kill them.

Great... using my boyz just became more of a headache As if my battlewagon wasn't a big enough headache already

Calypso: That is not correct.

If the Klaws were in a Position where they could potentially Strike at Calgar(but were in B2B with the Termies and not Calgar) and the Termies are all gone by step I1; then they can indeed strike at Calgar.

You determine who can fight before the Swings are made, not Who they are fighting, That comes at their initiative Steps.

the Diagram on page 41 Nicely explains this(of course the marines strike first so can only attack certain models; if it were Orks vs regular termies and a SC the blurb would be different).

Kommissar Kel wrote:You determine who can fight before the Swings are made, not Who they are fighting, That comes at their initiative Steps.

This is incorrect. The Rulebook FAQ adds in a third bullet point to the rulebook criteria on determining Engagement, and specifies that models that were engaged with multiple units but in base contact with only one of them must attack that unit.

Which is what the diagram on page 41 was trying to show, but without an actual written rule to back it up.

J K - as I said, recheck the rulebook, page 49, where it states ICs are seperate units in combat.

You then deal with them as if they were entirely seperate to the jhoined unit - meaning the btb requirement to hit, or being within 2" of someone in btb that can hit, etc.

... so what I had to be in base contact with all 3 PK nob leaders of the squads with Calgar at the very start of the phase, in order to hit him at all???

Juvieus Kaine wrote:... so what I had to be in base contact with all 3 PK nob leaders of the squads with Calgar at the very start of the phase, in order to hit him at all???

If the P.Klaw nobs are in B2B at the start they must attack that unit. So the best place for a P.Klaw nob is out of B2B but within 2" of models in B2B. That way you can choose who to attack

Well from what I can remember the PK nobz were near the front and at least touching a fellow boy who was in contact with either the termis or Calgar.

I'll have to remember this from now on.

insaniak wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:You determine who can fight before the Swings are made, not Who they are fighting, That comes at their initiative Steps.

This is incorrect. The Rulebook FAQ adds in a third bullet point to the rulebook criteria on determining Engagement, and specifies that models that were engaged with multiple units but in base contact with only one of them must attack that unit.

Which is what the diagram on page 41 was trying to show, but without an actual written rule to back it up.

Ah, See I did not Check the FAQ because it seemed fairly Clear with the BRB and didn't know they had errata'd it.

kinda Sucks that the whole point in determining who can fight happens before any swings so your low I models always get the chance to attack... only for that to be stripped away due to the ever so common multiple assaults.

Que sera.

Always gotta be extra careful about your positioning in a Multiple Assault, even one with just a unit + character.