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So, from my last dalliance in warhammer I realise I've actually still got quite a bit of undercoated good condition dwarf stuff sitting around, so being on a budget will be looking to start these guys up instead of the proposed High Elves/Chaos/Ogres. Returning to Warhammer as a 17 year old I've unfortunately got to go for the cheap option. As I said, I played Dwarves for a while last time I was in Warhammer, though not with much skill, and love the character of the stubborn, stumpy fellows.

This is a second generation of the list (from, er, yesterday), the first one had 30 warriors, 18 hammerers, BT instead of cannon, and an organ gun extra, but thanks to comments on Bugman's decided to change it up to give myself a horde-able warrior block (which can easily quick reform if needed), and a nice upgrade to the BT -> cannon. I already have plenty of converted hammerers, and with this build would have (using spare hammerers as GW warriors) the Runesmith hammerers, and 24 of the GW warriors made up and undercoated. Decided to stray away from missile troops, due to their small nerf with 8th (re BS modifiers), and the boost of warmachines. Basically I sit back, hammer big things with the cannon, and infantry blocks with the GT, before breaking the enemy charge on the axes of my doughty warriors and flanking if needed with Hammerers.

This is supposed to be a competitive list for 8th edition.

Characters:
Runesmith: Rune of Balance, Shield, Rune of Stone 127
Cheap and cheerful, it's unlikely anybody will get a decent magic phase with this guy around - I need to size up opponents at my LGS, to see whether I'd be fine with just a cheap thane, but for now, he's good to go.

Core:
40 GW Warriors: FC 425
What really needs to be said? ...

Special:
Cannon: Rune of Forging, Rune of Burning 130

Grudgethrower: Rune of Penetrating, Rune of Accuracy 130

14 Hammerers: Musician, Standard Bearer 186
A decent counter-attack unit? Thought I could do with something to give me a little punch in cc, though they are a little vulnerable. Apparently for Dwarves with GWs are the way forwards, when you're In 2 and can't rely on SCR to whittle down steadfast blocks.

Cheers for any responses, constructive criticism and comments please

I would split the warriors up. Dorfs being much hardier than other core can do fine (esp at 1k) with 20 guys per unit. Also helps in case you run into skaven with 50 man blocks that will bog one unit down really fast I would also recommend switching the hammerers to longbeards since they get cheaper command

kenshin620 wrote:I would also recommend switching the hammerers to longbeards since they get cheaper command

But they cost more per model if you're going great weapon. I think the hammerers work out cheaper in that circumstance. I'll admit that without a BSB, the Old Grumblers rule looks more attractive, though.

kenshin620 wrote:I would split the warriors up. Dorfs being much hardier than other core can do fine (esp at 1k) with 20 guys per unit. Also helps in case you run into skaven with 50 man blocks that will bog one unit down really fast I would also recommend switching the hammerers to longbeards since they get cheaper command

Well, one point more per model, and command saves me a whole 3 points , I lose 11 for the Old Grumblers as opposed to Stubborn. Hmm, not worth it IMO. If there is a 50 man unit in 1000 points I'll be surprised, and if it reaches my line unharmed I'll be surprised. Then the skaven will strike with max 41 attacks (champ + spear horde), if 40 are still alive, doing on average 4.56 wounds. Then I strike back (w/ 31 attacks) and cause on average 17.22 wounds. Taking that in a vacuum ( I know, theoryhammer for the fail but hey) he's now not steadfast and needing snake eyes most likely... I don't know where I'd get the points for the extra command either to be honest. When facing stuff like Chaos Warriors I'll be grateful to have that horde, or ogres etc. I don't know really, elaborate on your point if you would.

Cheers for the replies both of you.

Any other comments?

I like it P. Hoard of dwarves is awesome... I don't know if it is the most effective use of points. It WILL look badass on the battlefield... And it will force your opponent to commit almost everything to an epic slugfest, which is always fun. The hammerers are a good complementary unit, with high str for the random monster or ogre or whatever... I like the warmachine selection, and you should never field an organ gun, they are ruthless and my warriors hate them more than sigmar!! Let us know how it turns out!

Ack forgot they're more expensive. Hammers would be better then I suppose unless you botch your panic rolls

For those arguing for a split, here's a sample list, adapting mine:

Characters:
Runesmith: Rune of Balance, Shield 122

Core:
25 GW Warriors: FC 275

24 HW&S Warriors: FC 241

Special:
Bolt Thrower: Engineer, Rune of Burning 65

Grudgethrower: Rune of Penetrating, Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Burning 135

12 Hammerers: Musician, Standard Bearer 162

IMO weaker - I know it might make sense to drop the hammerers but then surely I've just got exactly the same flexibility I had with the last list ( albeit 2 med-sized units v. 1 big, 1 small). To be honest I don't think the split really works, especially with the loss of cannon for BT. When I drop the hammerers I can get basically 2 units of 30 (1xGW and 1x HW&S) and keep the cannon, but I don't think that gives me much of an advantage if any over the original. Unless I drop the hammerers, add an organ gun and go for 20 HW&S warriors, 25 GW. Then I'm a bit low on infantry though... Thoughts?

However, came across this argument in a tactica thread on warseer which says what I want to say fairly eloquently re: running one block:

'First of all think about point denial. If you have two units of 20 and your opponent kills 20 from one unit then he gets those points, however if it had been one unit of 40 he would get no points. (this is the big one for me, personally)

Secondly there is effectivess. Two units of 20 that have lost half their models are very weak, but a horde of 40 that has lost half it's models is still effective as it has the option of reforming for more ranks.'

Food for thought?

It's a good point, and one I'm still coming to terms with in 8th. I think there's an attitude right now that perhaps undervalues the smaller units. I believe they have a place, a role, in helping to decide when and where to fight.

But yes, I've been learning to my detriment that 8th really provides some serious advantages to large units.