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Alright. Can a model with both an armor save and invulnerable save, like a chaplain with 3+/4+, choose which one they will use. Example: you want to lose combat for tactical reasons, instead of taking a regular power armor save, could you use the 4+ invulnerable in hopes of failing it? Likewise, could you purposely choose to use your power armor save against a weapon that ignores armor in order to kill off the chaplain, captain, etc.

Another example is a dark eldar archon electing to use his normal armor save rather than his shadowfield in the interest of preserving the field.

Generally, people consider "the best avaible" save to be the lowest target number.

While you can give random examples, in an actual game I have never wished that a model could just commit suicide by taking a differant save.

It gets differant when you have to decide against a 3+ invuln save you have to reroll, or a 4+ cover save you don't.

While the 'models with more than one save' section of the rules (p24) may seem a bit ambiguous, remember that you can only do what the rules allow you to do and on this subject they say:

"Sometimes, a model will have a normal armor save and a separate armor save...in these cases, the model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of always using the best available save."


While the descriptor 'advantage' is clearly subjective, the actual rule 'always [use] the best available save' is pretty darn clear.


This also backs up the rest of the changes they made from v4 to v5 of the game where they removed the ability of the players to have their models 'commit suicide' for tactical reasons (like not being able to 'turn off' your combat weapons at will anymore).


In short, no, you always have to use the best save available to your models.

I asked because I was mostly interested in having the option for my archon to save his shadowfield. Armor saves against the chainswords, shadowfield for powerfist. I entirely understand where you're coming from and I agree with your ruling. The only thing that left me in question was that 'best save' could also be considered subjective.

I guess the only question I'd have was mentioned early. Fateweaver in range of nullzone. the 3+ invuln is technically the 'best' save, though the cover save can be re-rolled. How would you rule that?

"technically" the best save is alwyas the one with the best chance of passing , as a save is defined as a chance of saving a wound from occurring.

Not everyone plays it that way, as having to multiply two numbers together can be considered "hard"

nosferatu1001 wrote:"technically" the best save is alwyas the one with the best chance of passing , as a save is defined as a chance of saving a wound from occurring.

Not everyone plays it that way, as having to multiply two numbers together can be considered "hard"

Normal roll 6/36, 12/36, 18/36, 24/36, 30/36 (6, 5+, 4+, 3+, 2+)
reroll failed11/36, 20/36, 27/36, 32/36, 35/36(6, 5+, 4+, 3+, 2+)
Reroll success 1/36, 4/36, 9/36, 16/36, 25/36(6, 5+, 4+, 3+, 2+)

... Some things wrong if you can't remember that Rerolling a fail is better and Rerolling a success is worse, then a single roll by two (doesn't sound right but more general then "A 4+ will be better then a 3+ RS and worse then a 5+RF")

son_of_osiris wrote:I asked because I was mostly interested in having the option for my archon to save his shadowfield. Armor saves against the chainswords, shadowfield for powerfist. I entirely understand where you're coming from and I agree with your ruling. The only thing that left me in question was that 'best save' could also be considered subjective.

I guess the only question I'd have was mentioned early. Fateweaver in range of nullzone. the 3+ invuln is technically the 'best' save, though the cover save can be re-rolled. How would you rule that?

I don't think it really matters as long as its clear that you're taking the save that gives your model the best chance to survive. That's the whole point...you're not allowed to 'choose' to have your models die when you want, you're supposed to use the best save. So as long as you stick to that principle nobody's ever going to give you grief if you go with a 4+ cover save with a re-roll over a 3+ non-rerollable save.