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My friend has a tendency to stick all his cms/kb in rhinos, drive them 12',dump them and then assault with them. I am not certain he can do this since I'm not shore that rhinos are assault transport...

am i right??

I play tau so this kind of maneuver is kinda powerful since i dot get a good shot on him before they kills my fw.

I've tidied up your post a bit, please take a bit more time in future with regards to spelling when posting. Ta.

As awsome sauce as it would be - no, Rhinos are not assault vehicles.

Land raiders and open topped transports are the only ones from which you can do this IIRC.

Ha!

I knew it. so there was a good reason that he lost 300pts of models and i got tabled.

Next time he tries it refer him to the disembarkation rules on page 67 of the rulebook. If so inclined you could even turn the tables and launch an assault with his intended victims; robbing him of his assualt bonus!

But if you have fire warriors, that's NOT recommended! You have S5 rapid firing guns!!!!!

Death To The False False emperor! im looking at you ugly chaos no a rhino cannot be used as an assault vehicle and also take rail guns.. thatll make short work of trasnports and then when its popped.. template his A$$

liam0404 wrote:But if you have fire warriors, that's NOT recommended! You have S5 rapid firing guns!!!!!

I wouldn't discount it out of hand, even with pulse rifle armed fire warriors. If you can thin them out with fire from other squads, assaulting with the closest unit may be a viable tactic. Close combat is pretty definitive and if you can't neutralise them in one turn by shooting they're coming for you in your opponent's turn anyway. Sometimes it's better to sacrifice a round of shooting to get the assault in yourself before your opponent can. If you've armed some of your Fire Warriors with pulse carbines this becomes a far more viable tactic because you can have the best of both worlds.

Tom Norman wrote:

liam0404 wrote:But if you have fire warriors, that's NOT recommended! You have S5 rapid firing guns!!!!!

I wouldn't discount it out of hand, even with pulse rifle armed fire warriors. If you can thin them out with fire from other squads, assaulting with the closest unit may be a viable tactic. Close combat is pretty definitive and if you can't neutralise them in one turn by shooting they're coming for you in your opponent's turn anyway. Sometimes it's better to sacrifice a round of shooting to get the assault in yourself before your opponent can. If you've armed some of your Fire Warriors with pulse carbines this becomes a far more viable tactic because you can have the best of both worlds.

Sometimes it's right to assault first - but never with fire warriors. Even if you assault them, the chances are they are going to go first - so they will probably kill most of the tau before the tau even get to make an attack back. As I said, sometimes its better to assault and forgo your shooting - but this is most definately not one of those times.

Assault with fire warriors? I2 and WS2. Most likely the enemy will be marines coming out of rhinos. Thats a fight you cannot win!

Exactly - and what would be likely to happen, is that you assault said unit, they die, and the marine unit gets to consilidate - and assault ANOTHER unit in the next turn!

Rhinos are neither Open Topped nor Assault Vehicles.

If your friend wants to continue doing this then he must show you where either rule is in his codex. AS he wont be able to then HOPEFULLY he'll stop!

The fact that they're Initiative and Weapon Skill 2 doesn't put them at any greater disadvantage against Chaos Space Marines than the troops of almost any other race. They still hit on a 4+ and they still strike second. The fact remains that assault is inevitable and it might be better to double the number of dice you roll in that assault (as well as reduce your opponent's attack dice) instead of shooting. Bear in mind that even a withering hail of 24 pulse rifle shots from a full squad of Fire Warriors will statistically only inflict 2.67 wounds against a squad of Chaos Space Marines.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the best thing to do when faced with a full strength Chaos Marine squad is to mindlessly throw your Fire Warriors into close combat, but as I said before: if you can thin them out with fire from other squads first that makes an assault with overwhelming numbers a reasonable option. The alternative is that they come at you with an increased number of attack dice and you've only got one dice per model with which to repel them (half of what you'd have if you'd made the assault yourself). They'll inflict more wounds than you and force a morale test. If you fail it that's when your Initiative 2 will really be felt.

Tom Norman wrote:The fact that they're Initiative and Weapon Skill 2 doesn't put them at any greater disadvantage against Chaos Space Marines than the troops of almost any other race. They still hit on a 4+ and they still strike second.

WS2 means they'll hit on 5+, not 4+ .

Ooops, no they wont. WS2 is NOT less than half WS4

If they were bezerkers then yes, they would hit on 5s....

You don’t need to tell me not to charge him. I spend enough time avoiding his csms to deliberately assault him.

If I have a squad of 6 fws, then im going to be killing about 2 and 2/3.

If I assault....um were have my fws gone???

the opposition in the thread was berserkers, which if youre chaos you don't want to assault except maybe with suits. and no assaulting out of rhinos if they moved, even pivoted

Ah, I didnt get that "kb" would be Khorne Bezerkers. In which case yes, you would hit then on 5+

If you have no other choice then assaultiing them is generally better than being assaulted - furious charge, so they hurt you on 2+/3+ (for suits), is the killer there.

It is the I2 that really kills Tau in melee.

and here I thought it was the WS2

I think it's because they are TAU!

Not assaulting with 12 Fire Warriors= 24 S5 shots

Assaulting with 12 Fire Warriors= 24 s3 attacks - 2 attacks per casualty (which will be a LOT!)

Sounds like a horrible idea to me!

You should really try having a few small units to get assaulted then the rest of the army can shoot the winning enemy squad after the FWs evaporate.

One thing you can do, though, if he drives up close to your lines, is move one unit of Fire Warriors CLOSER, hopefully partially encircling the CSMs, and spread them out to limit his movement.

Simultaneously move your other units AWAY from his assaulting unit. You still shoot him, and don't assault, but by limiting his move+assault distance gained in his following turn, you may buy your other units an extra turn of shooting.

I used a squad of lesser daemons this way in the final round of my last tournament to block a squad of assault terminators from getting at a full unit of my chaos space marines. If I had moved backwards he would have been able to force me back and take an objective (with a 5 man BA assault marine squad following a ways behind his termies) and possibly assault both units. As it was, I walled off the terminators from my SMs, keeping them alive for another turn; long enough to contest the objective, giving me the win.

Killkrazys is correct. they suck at killing in cc motly because they are already dead before they get a chance to hit anything.