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Hi folks,
I've seen on another forum some discussion regarding Eldar support and heavy weapons, and one tidbit which seemed to have some consensus is that you can actually use the BS of the Warlock to fire a heavy/Support weapon; the reason being that the Warlock is a squad upgrade and member of the squad, not an Independant character.

What are your views on this? Obviously, it's a very interesting prospect and potential game changer, what with allowing Guardian heavy weapons and support weapons to have a BS of 4 - especially considering in some cases you would have forked out for the Warlock upgrade regardless!

Yes they can; 4th they couldn't 5th they can. Vibro cannons don't need him and its pointless when the other two are being guess fired ... but for those silm times when you can see the enemy and are using them he's great for the first shot (see multiple barrage rules)

Why do you say Vibro Cannons don't need him? They normally roll to hit with a BS3, and I know it's a heavy investment for albative wound, Embolden and the +1 BS, but in certain situations I think it could be worth it?

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:Why do you say Vibro Cannons don't need him? They normally roll to hit with a BS3, and I know it's a heavy investment for albative wound, Embolden and the +1 BS, but in certain situations I think it could be worth it?

vibro cannons fire as a group and ether all hit or all miss.
One VC = 50% chance to hit
Two VC= 75% chance to hit
ThreeVC=87.5% chance to hit
warlock does improve that but not enough to need him.
One VC = 66.6% chance to hit
Two VC= 83.3% chance to hit
ThreeVC=91.6% chance to hit

its only a 4% increase when you have three and only 8.3% when taking two.

The perfect size for a unit of VC is normally 2. 100pts adding even the most basic warlock adds 30pts ... think of it as an increase of 30% for an increase of 8%.
If you take 3 then its only 16.6% increase for a 4% increase.

Eldar heavy weapons (the ones that go with Guardian squads) specifically tell you that one of the two designated crew needs to fire the weapon. The crew is defined as guardians, not the warlock. So, those definately fire at BS3.

Eldar support weapons function the same as other artillery. I'm not sure how that works with an upgrade character. But, the only difference between BS3 and BS4 is that a scatter is 1" less. Not a big deal, IMO.

Grakmar wrote:Eldar heavy weapons (the ones that go with Guardian squads) specifically tell you that one of the two designated crew needs to fire the weapon. The crew is defined as guardians, not the warlock. So, those definately fire at BS3.

Ah could have swarn this was only about support weapons ... yep heavy weapons can only be fired by the two guardians crew.

Eldar support weapons function the same as other artillery. I'm not sure how that works with an upgrade character. But, the only difference between BS3 and BS4 is that a scatter is 1" less. Not a big deal, IMO.

Its part of the BGB artillary rules and it makes them nearly doublely effective
2D6 ... zero scatter ... BS3 8.33%, BS4 16.66%
2D6 ... 2" or less scatter (still likely to hit some one) ... BS3 27.77%, BS4 41.66%

...Worth it for me

Some great responses guys - thanks!

Here's another couple of questions then regarding the Vibrocannon:

1) When it mentions 'drawing' a line to determine what units have been hit; how does this work in relation to, say, cityfight terrain where units can be in a first or second floor? Is the line assumed to have an infinate hight? Do you adjust the angle so that the line will intersect the floor you're targetting - and if so - at what point does the line become eligable to hit units on a first floor, and no longer units on the ground?

2) Since the Vibro Cannon does not need a LOS, and the shot passes through terrain and units without penalty; doesn't this mean that if you hit a transport, you'd also be rolling for hits against the occupants? I can't see why it wouldn't be the case, since they're not being targetted, but the line is still intersecting them - but it hasn't been anything I've actually considered...

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:Some great responses guys - thanks!

Here's another couple of questions then regarding the Vibrocannon:

1) When it mentions 'drawing' a line to determine what units have been hit; how does this work in relation to, say, cityfight terrain where units can be in a first or second floor? Is the line assumed to have an infinate hight? Do you adjust the angle so that the line will intersect the floor you're targetting - and if so - at what point does the line become eligable to hit units on a first floor, and no longer units on the ground?

2) Since the Vibro Cannon does not need a LOS, and the shot passes through terrain and units without penalty; doesn't this mean that if you hit a transport, you'd also be rolling for hits against the occupants? I can't see why it wouldn't be the case, since they're not being targetted, but the line is still intersecting them - but it hasn't been anything I've actually considered...

What you do ....
1) Roll to hit (don't need a target)
2) Measure 36" in a straight line from any one of the battery *
3) Any units that it pass through are hit (does not need to hit a model only pass between members of the unit)#
4) Roll to wound
5) Models take saves


* Line travels in a straight line normally we look from above and assume it travels at table height so model on hill won't be affected unless you angle up ... in which case you'd miss models on the far side. It can aim up to 45' but you'll rarely need to fire it upwards.
# Models in transports cannot be hit as the line does not pass through the unit.

A line has neither height or width, only length. So ify ou want to angle it upwards to hit units in buildings it wont hit models along the ground, and so on.

Tri wrote:
* Line travels in a straight line normally we look from above and assume it travels at table height so model on hill won't be affected unless you angle up ... in which case you'd miss models on the far side. It can aim up to 45' but you'll rarely need to fire it upwards.
# Models in transports cannot be hit as the line does not pass through the unit.

What about if the other models are in front and below? When you start measuring whether the line passes through, do you take a gauge of the model hight on the ground, and if the line would still intersect this high as it passes through the unit, counts as a hit?

For #2, if the unit is in the vehicle, and the line passes through the vehicle, how does it not pass through them? Does this mean that units inside a bunker are also safe? What if you can actually physically have the units within the Bunker?

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:

Tri wrote:
* Line travels in a straight line normally we look from above and assume it travels at table height so model on hill won't be affected unless you angle up ... in which case you'd miss models on the far side. It can aim up to 45' but you'll rarely need to fire it upwards.
# Models in transports cannot be hit as the line does not pass through the unit.

What about if the other models are in front and below? When you start measuring whether the line passes through, do you take a gauge of the model hight on the ground, and if the line would still intersect this high as it passes through the unit, counts as a hit?

For #2, if the unit is in the vehicle, and the line passes through the vehicle, how does it not pass through them? Does this mean that units inside a bunker are also safe? What if you can actually physically have the units within the Bunker?

1) its along the line if the line pass through (even at an angle) then they're hit. You'll have to best guess this but normally its easy enough to see if a unit will be hit (lines above head hight or bellow foot hight its a miss)

2) if the bunker is a transport no, if just gives cover yes.
2)a) models in transports cannot normally be shot (there may also be mention to this in the BGB FAQ*)
2)b) Though you can measure to them they are not there so the shot cannot be proven to pass through the unit.
*here it is

Q: Can an embarked unit ever be the target of enemy
shooting? (p67)
A: No. Only the transport vehicle can be hit.

Aah I see, thanks