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Has anyone figured out a way to mathhamer scatter and distances when firing at vehicles?

I've been trying to figure it out, but I've run into a wall and am curios to see if anyone has discovered how to do this yet.

I think you are in the wrong forum.

On a side note, there was a chap who posted something about this maybe 5-6 months back. He calculated the size of maost vehicles in the game and the chances of hitting the vehicles at BS3-5.

It was actually really cool to see the numbers. Cant point you in the right direction, but it is buried in the Dakka archives somewhere.

Essentially what I got out of it was most blast weapons that were BS 3 had about 50% chance of hitting and most BS4 had about 60% chance of hitting. Essentially the same as if a "shot" was fired. Now of course this changes a little for Land Raiders and Vypers, but as far as the standard Rhino/chimera/ wave serpant/ this holds true.

This should probably be in like the tactics forum, or something.

Anyways, the way I do it shorthand is assume that a hit or a 2" scatter is good enough.

If I'm BS3, that means I roll a hit, or up to a 5 on scattering. That means 1/3 hit, and 1/3 of the remaining 2/3ds hit for about a .55 (or, about half the time).

I love shooting my Vindicators at Land Raiders/Monoliths. Its gotta be upwards to 80% chance to hit

Take the footprint of the vehicle you want to mathammer out.

Step 1: If it's a rectangle, multiply the length by the width. If it's not (or if you like to complicate things), measure it's area in square inches. (If your vehicle is a circle, measure the radius and skip to step 3)

Step 2: Take the above result, multiply by 2 and divide by pi. Then, take the square root of the result. That is the average distance a shot has to scatter in order to reach the critical hit/miss distance.

Step 3: Now, take that number and add your BS (unless you're curious about barrage without LOS, then add zero).

Step 4: Take that number and consult the table below for your chance to actually hit you target (getting a "hit" is already included)

12 or more: 100%
11: 98%
10: 94%
9: 89%
8: 81%
7: 72%
6: 61%
5: 52%
4: 44%
3: 39%
2: 35%
1 or less: 33%

This assumes that the hole in the center is just a single point, and not an actual sized hole. So, the calculation isn't perfect.


Example: Assume a BS3 model is firing at a monolith. A monolith is 6" x 6". So, from Step 1, we end up with 36 using either calculation. Step 2 shows that a scatter of 4.7 or less will result in a hit. Step 3 ends up with 7.7 for BS3. In step 4, you can see that your chances of hitting in this setup is between 72% and 81%. A good estimate is around 79% chance of hitting.

If you want to do it quick, just use fractions.
ie: "For about 1/3 of the directions it could roll I need to roll under a 5, for about 1/2 of the directions I need a 3, and for about 1/6 I can roll a 9 and be ok."
Not too complicated if you simplify it like that. Goes pretty fast.

there really isn't a way to determine which distance it will go, but the chance of a direct hit is 1/3.

the other 2/3 of the time it will scatter.

the average roll on 2d6 is 7. subtract your BS and then you will have the average scatter.


if your BS is 3 then the average scatter will be 4" 2/3 of the time.

Hehe, sure there is it's 1/360, work out the accptable arc of your shot and have a guess


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord PoPo wrote:Has anyone figured out a way to mathhamer scatter and distances when firing at vehicles?

I've been trying to figure it out, but I've run into a wall and am curios to see if anyone has discovered how to do this yet.

Btw
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mathhammer+scatter

Grakmar's way works.

There's a somewhat more easy to understand way to do it, but nevertheless his method is correct


HIGH FIVE!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChrisCP wrote:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mathhammer+scatter

The formula that the guy posted there doesn't take into account the different sizes of vehicles... It's accurate, but incomplete.

Thanks anyways though!

Right, that's really the difficult part of mathhammer with blast templates. It's not that you can't do the math, but because, unlike regular shooting, blast templates are entirely dependent on your opponent.

If your opponent spreads his troops way out, small blast templates will get one hit, whereas if he clusters them together, you'll get more like 9. Likewise, if you opponent only brings tiny vehicles, it's going to be harder to hit them than big ol' whoppers like a land raider.

Straight-fire weapons dont' suffer from the problem of your opponent determining how much damage they do, and thus are easier to express in numbers.

Plus, it's a lot easier to do approximate the math in your head with the regular kind of shooting. Pausing the game to look up my chances on the above table would probably draw me a few blank stares or angry glares.

It gets a bit jarring when I use a Small blast template at an opportune time and get 6 hits, whereas my large blast template never seem to land more than 7.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:It gets a bit jarring when I use a Small blast template at an opportune time and get 6 hits, whereas my large blast template never seem to land more than 7.

That's true, my plasma devastators always seem to do much more damage than any leman russ. I suppose BS has something to do with it, but not much. Maybe it's just that the capability of the lrbt is just more frightening and causes the enemy to spread out more.. Or I'm just imagining things.

Ven Dreads (especially Bjorn) are DEADLY with Plasma Cannons. Especially Bjorn, since he statistically never misses his target.

Also, This is also why I like Biovores. Due to the Multiple Barrage rule, you can manipulate the other two templates so that they at least hit something.

Cantus wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:It gets a bit jarring when I use a Small blast template at an opportune time and get 6 hits, whereas my large blast template never seem to land more than 7.

That's true, my plasma devastators always seem to do much more damage than any leman russ. I suppose BS has something to do with it, but not much. Maybe it's just that the capability of the lrbt is just more frightening and causes the enemy to spread out more.. Or I'm just imagining things.

This is because the small blast template is almost half as big as the large blast template, so squads that can shoot 4 small blast templates are always going to outclass a model that shoots 1. That being said, your 'Russ is probably a bit less expesive than your devastator squad.

And as further proof of what I say, I finished up a game this afternoon where my beloved T-fire cannons shelled the hell out of a stealer shock army.

20 Str 6 ap 5 hits on a 10 man stealer unit = lolz

Dont know about Cantus, but I tend to use either the Hive Tyrant's Venom Cannon or the Ven Dread's Plasma Cannon, both of which are one-small-template weapons. And I still somehow manage to outclass my battle cannons in kills.

Lord PoPo wrote: This is because the small blast template is almost half as big as the large blast template, so squads that can shoot 4 small blast templates are always going to outclass a model that shoots 1. That being said, your 'Russ is probably a bit less expesive than your devastator squad.

And as further proof of what I say, I finished up a game this afternoon where my beloved T-fire cannons shelled the hell out of a stealer shock army.

20 Str 6 ap 5 hits on a 10 man stealer unit = lolz

Oh of course, but I was just talking about on a 1:1 basis. There's most likely just something psychological though going on- when something from the squad kills something else I subconsciously reward the whole squad.

Cantus wrote:

Oh of course, but I was just talking about on a 1:1 basis. There's most likely just something psychological though going on- when something from the squad kills something else I subconsciously reward the whole squad.

Interesting notion, and pretty obvious now that I think about it. The 3" template isn't considered that much of a threat compared to the big bad daddy blast marker.. even if the weapons firing it are less effective, so they spread out less than they should against the 3 incher..

This thread has gone completely off the OP, but it's still pretty interesting

"Ummmm"
*points*
"That way!!!"

ChrisCP wrote:But it is not specified to be 'every' or say 'each player turn', so what it shoul (or shall we say what you want/feel) is wrong, it follows the current format of permissions quite happily unless, as you've sho, you can't understand/don't see the evidence that you yourself are quoting.

Again you are appering to want MC's/MS to shoot 'every shooting phase' or 'in each players shooting phase' which would need the language used above, which it doesn't have. Your evidence backs up the need for this specific language to be being used - which it isn't.

um... sir...

I believe you may be ranting in the incorrect thread...

Thanks