Flyrant or Deathstar?

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**Tervigon**

I was going to make a flyrant but I am now having second thoughts, so what should I make a Flyrant or a Deathstar? And why?

**Footsloggin**

Tervigon wrote:I was going to make a flyrant but I am now having second thoughts, so what should I make a Flyrant or a Deathstar? And why?

I never mix my flyrant, he always has a predefined roll. Whether it be closing into CC as fast as he can, or avoiding CC by blasting massive pinning pies at my enemy, they should always be specialized in my opinion. So Wings, Lash whip/bonesword, and a pair of scything talons, OR Wings, Stranglethorn, and devourers with brain leech worms.

**Tervigon**

I was going to make a CC. Im not flly sure what direction my armys is going in but I think it will end up being CC with some ranged support

**Kilkrazy**

All Tyranid armies are CC with fire support.

There's hardly a weapon in the Tyranid book with a range over 18 inches, and nearly everything is an Assault weapon.

Once you are within 18 inches, you are damned close to charge range, given the number of Fleet creatures available.

**Footsloggin**

Tervigon wrote:I was going to make a CC. Im not flly sure what direction my armys is going in but I think it will end up being CC with some ranged support

Ranged support is commonly a must, often leaning towards Hive Guard, zoeys, or other elites choices. Other choices commonly include a few squads of termies who pepper their opponents before charging into combat. If you want to tie up an enemy choice who is killing your units quickly, a squad of gargoyles or raveners will keep it distracted long enough for it to die.

On the charge, 30 gargoyles get 60 attacks... of which cause major damage... considering that 10 will cause auto-wounds... against marines, thats 3.33 wounds on the charge. Outright. Though I myself am unsure of how blinding venom works...

It says that any roll of a six causes an instant wound. However, does this mean that I can roll that six to see if it also causes a wound? I.E. Those 10 wounds cause 3.33 wounds. Then, can they roll again to cause additional wounds?

**MechaEmperor7000**

Flyrants should go for CC. It's one of the cheaper tyrant variants since you dont need much in the way of additional equipment and just look at the tyrant's stats. You're paying for every point on that statline, so use it.

**timetowaste85**

Uh, I think what you were originally asking was a Flyrant by himself or taking the "deathstar" by putting him with HiveGuard? I'd say go for the deathstar. Most armies have trouble getting to him, and since he can force any wounds he takes on his guard, he lasts longer to get into combat and do damage. A flyrant is too easy to shoot down. One squad of 5 Sternguard in a drop pod with combi meltas will eat him. And I personally run one unit of them in every BA list I play for anti-tank hunting to cripple my opponent first turn-it'll have a similar effect on a flyrant

**DarknessEternal**

timetowaste85 wrote: and since he can force any wounds he takes on his guard,

Hive Tyrants and Tyrant Guard have no such rule in this edition.

**timetowaste85**

They don't? Huh. I was just told that by a nid player last weekend. Oh well. I don't play the codex, so I was just going based on what I was told

**Nerrik**

The guard add another wound group, so if they wound the unit you can choose to assign that wound to the guard and then take your save. Not quite the same, but maybe it was just interpreted wrong.

**MechaEmperor7000**

The Tyrant, for all intents and purposes, prettymuch now counts as a champion of the T. Guard unit (since he does not possess the Independant Character Rule). You can allocate wounds to the guards, but no more than 2 at a time per guard a la wound allocation. Thanks to the T6 though, you likely wont have more than two at best. Either a high strength weapon will yield one devastating wound, or your high toughness shrugs off the other wounds.

**-Loki-**

DarknessEternal wrote:
timetowaste85 wrote: and since he can force any wounds he takes on his guard,

Hive Tyrants and Tyrant Guard have no such rule in this edition.

Since when? I suggest you read the codex. Page 35, to be precise.

Shield Wall
Tyrant Guard are used as living shields whose entire purpose it is to protect the Hive Tyrants from harm, heedless of any personal injury.

A single Hive Tyrant (or Swarmlord) may join a unit of Tyrant Guard exactly as if it were an independant character. If a Hive Tyrant (or the Swarmlord) has joined a unit of Tyrant Guard, the unit cannot go to ground, voluntary or otherwise.

Emphasis mine. Now read page 49 of the rulebook.

Shooting at independant characters
... Independant Characters that have joined a unit are considered part of that unit and may not be picked out as targets. If the unit they have joined is hit, the controlling player can choose to allocate hits against the characters just like the other members of the unit.

However, like any other independant character, he can be singled out in assault.

**MechaEmperor7000**

The independant character rule only comes in when the Tyrant joins the unit. As he cannot leave it, and it does not say he gains the rule, the Hive Tyrant is now in effect part of the unit, much like a champion, and thus cannot be singled out, even in combat. The Independant Character quib is only concerning How he joins the unit.

**-Loki-**

The way I interpreted that is, if it joins the unit, it joins it in the same manner as an independant character joining another unit. Assuming it doesn't gain the benefits of an independant character joining a unit is stupid - or there would be no point actually joining the unit.

The wording in the codex also makes it sound like the Hive Tyrant can leave the unit, since it isn't an upgrade for the Hive Tyrant. It just says you can take one brood of Tyant Guard per Hive Tyrant or Swarmlord.

**DarknessEternal**

Exactly what part of the rules you quoted makes you think a Hive Tyrant and move wounds he's taking to the Tyrant Guard? None of them do.

He takes his own wounds just like anything that isn't an Imperial Guard Colonel.

**-Loki-**

DarknessEternal wrote:Exactly what part of the rules you quoted makes you think a Hive Tyrant and move wounds he's taking to the Tyrant Guard? None of them do.

He takes his own wounds just like anything that isn't an Imperial Guard Colonel.

This part.

If the unit they have joined is hit, the controlling player can choose to allocate hits against the characters just like the other members of the unit.

He counts as another member of the unit, thus, you can choose to allocate hits on him or the Tyrant Guard.

**DarknessEternal**

Uh, we're having a break down of communication here. I never disputed Hive Tyrants didn't take wounds like Independent Characters. I disputed the guy who said you couldn't wound Hive Tyrants while they were with Tyrant Guard, like last edition.

**-Loki-**

If a Hive Tyrant has joined a Tyrant Guard squad, wounds are allocated to the unit as a whole. As such, the wounds are allocated on a model by model basis by the controlling player. So, he was right - they're basically ablative wounds for the Hive Tyrant. Obviously some wounds need to be allocated to the Hive Tyrant if enough hit (since you need to allocate wounds evenly through the squad), but he can put the wounds which would igore armour saves on the Tyrant Guard.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I think Darkness is arguing that if you decide to use the Tyrant's 2+ save (if he gets that upgrade), fails it, then allocate the wound to one of his guard, that is no longer allowed under the new rules. However it's still possible to allocate wounds BEFORE Saves are rolled, but after the dice have been cast there's no turning back.

Also Loki, the FAQ stated that the Tyrant cannot leave the unit, that's where I get the "just like a champion" part. It's even backed up in the RAW since the rule only states that he "may join the unit, just like an independant character", not "gain the independant character rule" or "can also leave like an independant character".