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Hey everyone, I've been lurking here for quite some time and I have to say this is the best Warhammer 40k community on the internet. That's why I've decided to ask here!

I've been into the hobby for about 3 years now, but I've only really been playing against other people for a little over a year. I got into the models because I used to love to paint D&D miniatures and a friend conscripted me into painting his tyranids a few summers ago. After that I bought my own models to paint for stress relief. I love the lore, I love about 90% of the books, so I am hooked.

Onto the topic at hand: I live in an area where we are limited on gaming flgs and there is only a handful of players in the city (That I know of). I have instead played with a friend of mine for the better part of a year just on a friendly basis. Though as of recently he has started going to tournaments and playing much more competitively. He plays Space Wolves (a codex that is kind of overpowered in my opinion, but not invincible) and I play just about everything, CSM, Tau, SM, IG, Eldar, Orks.

For the longest time we always kind of played more 'loosely' on the rules and used more common sense to dictate some things. Now he wants to enforce everything as RAW, which doesn't always bother me.

It's his personality that gets me.

He'll do things like 'remind' me that units are not in cover, even though clearly I know they are not. For instance I had a dreadnought standing behind a crater and he said, "You have to be 50% obscured to get cover from that, by the way." I know, thanks...

But when he moves his land raider near a ruined building, where ladder hung down from a second floor, he moved his sponson through it (picked up the tank and set it on the other side), instead of around it. Now, I might be the type to want a little vengeance, so I reminded him that he cant move through that, but around it. He let out a deep sigh and acted sarcastic to me for the rest of the game. I recently got my roommate into playing, and he doesn't even want to play anymore because of the tone of elitism. Which sucks because he bought 300 dollars worth of models to play.

He constantly preaches how he hates meta-gamers and cookie-cutter builds, yet constantly fields Rifleman Dreads and SW rocket spam. Even if I try to pose a logical argument to him, he won't listen because he's extremely stubborn and thinks he is never wrong. At one point he had almost completely tabled a list I had in like Turn 3 or 4. I said, "Dude, I'm done, there is no point." He kept egging me on to play and that there was no reason to stop... I think he just likes to see agony in defeat...

I don't know what to do about it. As stated earlier I can't tell him this because he'll just disagree and tell me its my problem, or ignore me out of stubbornness. I don't want to put him out because he has been a friend for a long time, and he hasn't done anything like this except for the last 3 months or so.

Also, if this has been posted before feel free to link me then close the topic... >_>

Thanks!

With whatever hobby I ever took, I've never played competitively, purely because of this. With a friend there's always those "it's ok I understand" moments. With offical tournaments and the like, it's more of a courtroom battle than a tabletop battle. Tell your friend to cut the crap and play with common sense. He's not fighting for his freedom against a murder case, he's just playing a game.

O: first post back!

Well, The sponson thing is a little confusing - he can put his sponson through a ladder. he just can't move the terrain to do it.

if he pivots the tank, he counts as firing only 2 weapons with POTMS.

Sounds like a bit of a jerk, I just suggest you don't play with him anymore. there are a lot of players who are abseloute hypocrits, and usually that comes with a tinge of stubbornness.

and the 'reminders' are just to make him feel like he's better at it then you; I suppose it could be from the position that he's just warning you, but from the sounds of it, not likely.

Also, it's never a good idea to just give up. even if your lost, just continue! who knows? you might actually tie. [Done this many times.]

There are lots of discussion like this, but you really can't change peoples personalities. Just find another gamer to play with you , much easier IMO.

Sorry to say this, but it sounds like your friend was in the right. He just wants to play by the rules. If you ignore the rules you might as well line your models up and yell "pew pew, I knock your guys down!" at one another until bored!

Im still confused by that whole scenerio as well. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong.

The fact is that he will go out of his way to enforce a rule when I am doing something. When I want to debate something, however, he just insists I'm wrong or will be completely unreasonable.

As stated the simple thing to do would be to find another person, my roommate for example, to play with but I think the problem really is low saturation of players in the area. Since only a couple dozen play in our area he wants to be top dog by proving himself in tournaments.

I'm considering skirting the issue and telling him I'm just tired of doing the same thing over and over.

Edited multiple times due to horrid spelling.

Winning is everything to some people, not the taking part.

I like to win, but I wouldn't be an ass about how I go about doing it.

The general argument from rule lawyers is that they "just want to play by the rules". Ethically though there will always be situations where one should just let common sense take over instead of scrutinizing every last word in the book and claiming "you cant do it because it doesnt say so". It's even mentioned in the rulebook itself that one should give leniency to their opponent and that the aim of the game is for enjoyment of both players (which, technically, does count as a rule since it's listed under them).

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it.

I guess I'm going to talk to him about it and see where he's at on it. I mean, I definitely wanna stay friends with him, I've known the guy for about 20 years. I just gotta either not play him or have him adjust his attitude a bit...

Brennus43 wrote:I don't know what to do about it. As stated earlier I can't tell him this because he'll just disagree and tell me its my problem, or ignore me out of stubbornness. I don't want to put him out because he has been a friend for a long time, and he hasn't done anything like this except for the last 3 months or so.

You're going to have to have a conversation about this. If you don't the situation will deteriorate and could threaten the entire friendship. He doesn't sound astute enough to pick up by himself on the fact that you're not having fun anymore. He's having fun so he thinks you must be too.

I think what's going on is that he is taking the game more seriously than you do and that has led him to believe that he plays it at a higher level than you. That's why he thinks he's right and any points you make are beneath notice. He's talking down to you. I would attribute this to his participation in the tourney environment, a more structured and in his mind, "higher" form of play. Since this is a relatively recent development I think you can fix it.

Next time he asks for a game decline and tell him that playing 40k isn't fun for you anymore. This presents it as your problem so he doesn't immediately go on the defensive. When he asks why you can say that something's changed about the games you play and they're just not fun anymore. You can elaborate and say we used to playmore casually, but now every game is a continuous argument about rules. Tell him it seems like you both want different things from the game now, where before you didn't. See if he recognizes that he's changed. If he does, tell him you want to play the old version of him, not the new hyper-competitive version of him. He may be resistant to the whole idea since he thinks he's better than you. You'll have to be prepared to refuse games with him so that he understands that you are completely serious that his behavior directly impacts his ability to play games with you.

Arschbombe wrote:You're going to have to have a conversation about this. If you don't the situation will deteriorate and could threaten the entire friendship. He doesn't sound astute enough to pick up by himself on the fact that you're not having fun anymore. He's having fun so he thinks you must be too.

I think what's going on is that he is taking the game more seriously than you do and that has led him to believe that he plays it at a higher level than you. That's why he thinks he's right and any points you make are beneath notice. He's talking down to you. I would attribute this to his participation in the tourney environment, a more structured and in his mind, "higher" form of play. Since this is a relatively recent development I think you can fix it.

Next time he asks for a game decline and tell him that playing 40k isn't fun for you anymore. This presents it as your problem so he doesn't immediately go on the defensive. When he asks why you can say that something's changed about the games you play and they're just not fun anymore. You can elaborate and say we used to playmore casually, but now every game is a continuous argument about rules. Tell him it seems like you both want different things from the game now, where before you didn't. See if he recognizes that he's changed. If he does, tell him you want to play the old version of him, not the new hyper-competitive version of him. He may be resistant to the whole idea since he thinks he's better than you. You'll have to be prepared to refuse games with him so that he understands that you are completely serious that his behavior directly impacts his ability to play games with you.

You definitely hit the nail on the head with that one. Thanks.