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So i was trying to create a Chapter Master for the Salamander Chapter as the title suggests,

So i was thinking of making some custom rules, so this is the starting idea i came up with.

Tu' Shan Chapter Master of the Salamanders Chapter,

WS 6
BS 5
S 4
T 4
W 3
I 5
A 3
LD 10

SV 2++

Wargear
Blazing armor -Crafted by the best artificers in the chapter which confers a 2+ armor save.
Hellforged Axe is one gigantic axe crafted in the deepest hottest forges on Nocturne, this gives the wielder a 2+ bonus to strength and is mastercrafted.
The Lava Shield fluxuates as though the shield is made up of lava itself and therefore can fire as a heavy flamer as well as acts like a storm shield in cc.

Special rules
Eternal Warrior
Fire Drakes Leader, can choose to have an honour guard equiped with relic blades an stormshields as an additioal cost to the honor gaurd squad each member costs an extra 15 points.

Overall cost 185

I have a couple of problems with this one.

First is the fact that he doesn't have a carbon copy of Vulkan's chapter tactics. Second is that the Firedrakes were supposed to be the elite terminators of the Salamanders, instead allow him to take assault terminator squads as troops, and remove the limit of one assault terminator squad buying a transport.

Every eternal warrior space marine in the codex has four wounds, so I'd up him to 4 wounds. Instead of making the shield fire a heavy flamer, instead make it just a regular flamer (If two of the artifacts left by the primarch give a 3++ and a heavy flamer in a gauntlet then I don't think regular artificiers in the chapter should be able to do better). Give him Vulkan's chapter tactics (as mentioned), Orbital bombardment like chapter masters, and make his armor Terminator armor (if I remember from fluff that's what he uses).

For all that, he should weigh in cost wise at about 220 points.

I disagree with Lone Dragon's advice. The character should not cause terminators to become troops and he should have 4 wounds (not all EW meq characters have 4 wounds). Also you don't have to give him orbital bombardment but if you do, this will increase his cost by 25 points.

I ran the numbers for your character as his and he actually costs around 205 points. I'll also point out that the point cost for the honour guard squad is a little off. Relic blades alone cost 15 points per member in the honour guard. I'd advise you rework the rule to say "may replace power weapon, bolt pistol, boltgun, frag and krak grenades with a relic blade and storm shield for 20 points".

I agree with candyman... keep him to 3 wounds... and give him the orbital bombardment and chapter tactics as vulkan... 230 points more or less...
I think that also 20 points for relic blade and storm shield are a little few considering upgrading a power weapon to a relic blade costs 15 points and a storm shield is worth the same... Maybe you can keep 20 points for the upgrade but increase Tu'shan cost to 250... it's a strong incentive to field him along his honour guard (finally someone is going to use the honour guard!!! hurray!!!!) and the lack of flexibility in building the army list may compensate the slighlty lower cost for the honour guard equipment

Tu' Shan Chapter Master of the Salamanders Chapter,

WS 6
BS 5
S 4
T 4
W 3
I 5
A 3
LD 10

SV 2++

Wargear
Blazing armor -Crafted by the best artificers in the chapter which confers a 2+ armor save.
Hellforged Axe is one gigantic axe crafted in the deepest hottest forges on Nocturne, this gives the wielder a 2+ bonus to strength and is mastercrafted.
The Lava Shield fluxuates as though the shield is made up of lava itself and therefore confers ?

Special rules
Eternal Warrior
Fire Drakes Leader, can choose to have an honour guard equiped with relic blades an stormshields as an additioal cost to the honor gaurd squad each member costs an extra 20 points.
Chapter Tactics, as Vulkan Twin link all flame weapons and Melta weapons (exception Flamestorm Cannon) Master craft all Thunder Hammers
Obital Bombardment

Cost Ballparking it at 240

Okay, so i love the ideas given so far and have taken them into consideration, but right now i am at a by pass because i want his shield do a form or something and the idea the the flamethrower is probably a copying idea, so i was looking for some opinions as to what i could make the shield do,
As far as the Terminator armor I like him in regular armor and i was going to model him with a larger body and overall but not terminator armor, just a bigger marine is what i am thinking, so any ideas?

basically, when making my raven guard chapter master, Areth Caan, I molded him around a chapter master. Worked well.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/324847.page

So far he seems to be a copy of Vulkan but slightly modified.

Very unimaginative...

and is that a 2++ save? 2+ Invulnerable?

The only thing I could see would be giving the Honor Guard Relic blades but it looks more like you just want them to have 3++ saves, which is kinda supposed to be the weakness of Honor Guard.

Why not just have it be a lowered price for Thunder Hammers?

And then allow Sergeants for Tactical Squads to be able to get Thunder Hammers as well?

He needs to be way more different from vulcan.

Tu' Shan Chapter Master of the Salamanders Chapter,

WS 6
BS 5
S 4
T 4
W 3
I 5
A 3
LD 10

SV 2++

Wargear
Blazing Terminator armor -Crafted by the best artificers in the chapter which confers a 2+ armor save.
Hellforged Axe is one gigantic axe crafted in the deepest hottest forges on Nocturne, this gives the wielder a 2+ bonus to strength and is mastercrafted but in combat with a vehicle it gives 2D6 instead of +2 strength.
The Lava Shield fluxuates as though the shield is made up of lava itself confers 3+ Invun
(So over all He is a 2+/3++)

Special rules
Eternal Warrior
Fire Drakes Leader, can choose to have an honour guard equiped with relic blades and Terminator Armor for an extra 45 points a model
Maste of the Hammer, Allows all Sergents to wield Thunder Hammers as well as lowers the overall cost of Thunderhammers by 5 points.

Overall Cost 240

Why do you have the axe broken down like that instead of simply listing is as a Master Crafted Relic Blade (which is its current function).
I kinda feel like giving Salamanders another 2+/3++ character is still a bit uninteresting. I understand trying to make things balance, so giving out random abilities can be dangerous, but surely a lava shield can be more interesting (and in some ways weaker) then a normal storm shield.

My suggestion:
"The Heart of Nocturne" (The Lava Shield): An ancient relic from the Salamander's home planet of Nocturne, this shield has the appearance and gives off the heat of molten magma itself. The shield inflicts a Str 3 hit on any enemy model who assaults him. In addition, it allows him to re-roll one failed armour save each player turn.


Keep him with a normal Iron Halo, so he ends up with a 2+/4++ but is all but immune to small arms fire and mobs. Not sure on pricing however.

Why does he have what is essentially a poorly worded Relic Blade?

Tu'shan wields dual Thunderhammers.

and why did you give his armor some nonsensical name. just say it is a suit of TDA that confers a 3++ Invuln.

Tu' Shan Chapter Master of the Salamanders Chapter,

WS 6
BS 5
S 4
T 4
W 3
I 5
A 3
LD 10

SV 2++

Wargear
A pair of thunder Hammers which confer a +1 attack which is not included above
Terminator Armor that was made to confer a 3+ invun as Well as the Standard 2+ armor

Special rules
Eternal Warrior
Fire Drakes Leader, can choose to have an honour guard equiped with Thundedr Hammers and stormshields as an additioal cost to the honor gaurd squad each member costs an extra 25 points.
Master of the Hammer, Sergents may be equiped with thunder Hammers and All Thunder hammers bought are reduced by 5 points in the army

240

Any thoughts thanks for the imput so far.

I like it so far- how about modelling him like the IF chapter master- the IF has 2 TH and a wrist-mounted boltgun or something. look in the sketch in the chapter master entry. How about that, except maybe have a wrist-mounted flamer (like the chapter master of the astral knights?)

I was thinking of modeling him in mid stride with both hammers behind him, and ten i was thinking of taking some gauss weapon beams, and cutting them into small almost lightning bolts and having them cross his back like large tessla coil almost, just to get some really good clear looking lightning going on, it was just a thought. The wrist mounted flamer sounds like a good idea but similar to vulkan, i was thinking possibly something else mounted on his wrist but not sure, Any other thoughts, i will have to look into how the IF Chapter Master is drawn up.

how about a wrist-mounted one of those sanguinary guard thingies?
An inferno pistol!
or a meltagun...

I was thinking a melta gun actually, i was also curious how peoeple fet about losing eternal warrior, and gaining toughness 5?

I'll do my version:
Tu'shan, chapter master of the salamanders. points-

special rules:
eternal warrior
orbital bombardment
combat tactics

wargear:
wrist-mounted meltagun
master-crafted TH (master-crafted relic blade is too vulkan-like IMO)
the shield of nocturne- this storm shield is forged in the hottest volcano on nocturne, and seems to be covered in a layer of red-hot lava. This is a SS that makes tu'shan's CC attacks re-roll to wound.
terminator armour
stats of a chapter master.

or replace the TH and SS with 2 TH. make him have a "dragon's head", or some other reptile, with an iron halo concealed in it.

@Katavus
I’ve reviewed your current ruleset. The ruleset is neat and balanced. I have a few quick points.

• Don’t give him any meltaguns/Infernus Pistols/wrist mounted weaponry. He is powerful enough and does not need it (if he could shoot, he’d be a little too powerful).
• Rather than state that thunder hammers can be purchased for sergeants at a 5 point discount, advise of the discounted prince in his profile. Something like “thunder hammers may be purchased for all unit sergeants at X points”.
• Be sure to specifically state that honour guard replace their power weapons, bolters and bolt pistols for TH/SS.

candy.man wrote:@Katavus
I’ve reviewed your current ruleset. The ruleset is neat and balanced. I have a few quick points.

• Don’t give him any meltaguns/Infernus Pistols/wrist mounted weaponry. He is powerful enough and does not need it (if he could shoot, he’d be a little too powerful).
• Rather than state that thunder hammers can be purchased for sergeants at a 5 point discount, advise of the discounted prince in his profile. Something like “thunder hammers may be purchased for all unit sergeants at X points”.
• Be sure to specifically state that honour guard replace their power weapons, bolters and bolt pistols for TH/SS.

What's wrong with a shooting weapon? If the person actually fixes him to make him less of a Vulkan it'd be all right. Besides the way you're saying it (imho), my Captain that has an Infernus pistol is overpowered.

And I'd definitely think that the honor guard automatically replacing their weapons is way overpowered. He should stick to there just being a discount so he can buy them in bulk.

@Grayspark
No worries, I’ll elaborate more since my post may have been a little unclear. The issue is not the shooting attack per se or the infernus pistol itself but “equipment compression”. The character is already wielding 2 thunder hammers (thus receiving a +1A bonus) and received a 3++ armour save (normally needing a SS in order to receive).

Normally, SC have some sort of “equipment compression”, often in the form of 2 in 1 wargear that allows the SC to have more wargear than a generic character could achieve. This can be seen through Abaddon (who has a TL bolter, as well as 2 weapons), Calgar (who has 2 weapons and a freaky storm bolter) and Vulkan (who has a relic blade, heavy flamer gauntlet and a 3++ save). A character could become a little OP if he has too much 2 in 1 wargear.

Also the character is wielding terminator armour and normally characters in terminator armour can only wield 2 weapons (either 2 1 handed weapons or 1 2handed weapon and 1handed weapon). I dare say his character has reached his equipment limit already wielding 2 weapons.

Perhaps if the character drops 1 thunder hammer, Kratavus can give the character a cool writ mounted bolter like Logan or a GK terminator.

Hope this is clearer for you.

Thank you all for the opinions, advice and help they have all been very helpful thanks again.

candy.man wrote:wielding 2 thunder hammers (thus receiving a +1A bonus) and received a 3++ armour save (normally needing a SS in order to receive).

where does it say he has 2TH and SS? I said 2 TH OR TH/SS.
And I fail to see how a chapter master with a TH, SS and inferus pistol is broken.

i would make him have a TH/SS and Inferno pistol OR 2 THs and an Inferno pistol. if he has the latter just give him a 4++ save.

that's what I posted. He misread.

I was going by the rules and opinions posted by Krativus and not the rules posted by Shrike. I agree with Grey Templar. If the character were to give up his 3++ save then he would could wield 2 TH and the weapon. I reckon the ruleset works better as is or with 1 TH and a wrist mounted weapon.