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Hi everyone,

I just got into WHFB with the High Elves army, and even though I've only played a few games with them, I've had the opportunity to go over a few other units with other people, and evaluate their effectiveness in combat, shooting, and magic.

The following is just an observation I've made on the units I've used so far, and while my experiences with them aren't very extensive, I believe I've hit the mark with some of them, as far as their purposes in the list are concerned. If there is a comment or opinion any of you would like to share, elaborate on, or even argue over, please feel free to share them here. Thanks!

And without further adieu, let the rant begin...

Prince Tyrion: A beat-stick and a half. Played his model twice so far, and have had nothing bad to say about him. At the moment, I’m still looking for a unit that he can attach himself with, to help with wound allocation and what not. My initial thoughts were Ellyrian Reavers, but that was only because they came with the IoB set. After looking through the codex, I think Dragon Princes or Silver Helms would be a much better unit to field with him. Any thoughts on which would be better?

Prince Teclis: I would honestly hate to be on the other side of the table playing against this character. Every spell is cast with irresistible force, and if I pick the Life Lore and cast Throne of Vines first, I ignore all further miscasts on a 2+. Is there anything bad to say about the character at all? Sure he’s frail with no save, but all mages come like that to start. And if he’s attached to a unit with good saves, he’s as well protected as any other character can be. Can anyone elaborate more on him about something I haven’t brought up yet?

Archmages/Mages: I’ve always upgraded to the 4th level/ 2nd level variant, and can’t find a single reason not to. Knowing more spells = better chance of winning. As for their equipment, I’m conflicted with a few items though. There are so many good items I can take, but I’ve managed to narrow it down to a few select ones I think stand out amongst the rest.

1. Annulian Crystal: Never hurts to have more Dispel Dice, and best of all it takes away from my opponents pool. Expensive at 40 points, but well worth it, I believe.
2. Silver Wand: For 10 more points, my Archmage can have 5 spells, or my Mage can have 3. If I play Teclis, then there’s probably less need for it, but if my Archmage is the best mage on the table, I’m pretty sure I want this item.
3. Talisman of Preservation/Endurance/Protection & Guardian Phoenix: Nothing bad here either, considering that no mages get any kind of saves to start normally. My concern here though is (besides from how pricey these items can get) the overall usefulness of these items. Sure having a Ward Save of any kind is good, but do any of you find that they earn their points back in the end?
4. Book of Ashur: Expensive as heck, but a +1 bonus to casting and dispelling definitely has it’s uses.

Nobles: No complaints about this character, since he’s the only one that can carry a BSB. I’ve learned that the staple equipment to give him is a Great Weapon, Armor of Caledor, and either a Dawnstone or Guardian Phoenix. I think I’m more in favor of the Guardian Phoenix on this, since theoretically his Armor Save can be ignored all together. With GP, at least he has a chance of making one save. Thoughts?

Sea Guard: At first, I thought they were a great core unit to take, being somewhat of a hybrid between Spearmen and Archers, at a higher point cost. But the more I played them, the more I realized that I was trying to use them for shooting only. That being the case, I proxyed them as Archers for one game, and the results actually came out better, largely because I ran them all as Archers instead of Sea Guard. I recently just picked up my first Battalion set, and am on my way to making my first sets of Spearmen and Archers. For now, I’ll stick to using them, but I think once I have my Spearmen ready, I don’t think I’ll be having much use for Sea Guard anymore. Any thoughts on how they can be better used?

Sword Masters of Hoeth: Absolutely nothing bad to say about these guys either. More often than not, they will break most units in a single turn they charge, and with Str 5 attacks, most infantry, save for Chaos Warriors, will have a poor chance of saving against their wounds. My biggest problem so far has been trying to keep them alive long enough to get to the other side of the board, where they can wreak total havoc. Life Lore seems to help, with all the buff spells I get from it, but I was wondering if there were other ways of keeping them from dying so quickly.

Ellyrian Reavers: Only got to play them once, and that was my first game ever. I’m still trying to learn the ropes of these guys, and was wondering what anyone else had to say about them. They’re not the best in CC, but their armor save is decent, making them a bit more durable than infantry models on foot. So would it be best to use them as fast moving shooters? Being that they can march and still fire, they’d be able to cover a lot of distance on the board. My guess is that it would be best to use them to disrupt enemy units, being as how far they can move, and then be able to Reform for free. Thoughts?

And there you have my analysis thus far. I’ll be adding more as I start playing and experimenting with other units.

Thanks for comments, everyone!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now that I think about it, this thread should probably be in the "Tactics" section, as I am asking for advice as well...

Would a moderator be kind enough to move this there for me please? Thanks!

I'm in a pretty similar situation. I've played 3 games with my High Elves so I am far from being great with them. Here are my thoughts, for what they are worth.

Tyrion and Teclis: Never used them, but I think it's obvious what they can do. I don't see myself using Teclis. (because of instant crying from your opponent, and any bystanders, about cheese) Prince Tyrion is something I have been thinking about trying out with a unit of Dragon Princes.

Mages: Well, I know they are supposed to be a strength for HE, but my experince so far has been them blowing up and taking half of a unit with them. It could be just bad luck but they don't have a good record for me.

Nobles: I agree with you completely. Not only are they the BSB, but add a little punch to a unit they are with. I would also take the ward save over reroll.

Sea Guard: Hmm, I've fallen into the same trap of just shooting. It may be because I tend to attach a Mage to this unit so I don't want to get him into combat.

Sword Masters: My favorite unit. They can roll poorly and take alot of damage from return attacks, but they usually really put the hurt on whatever they fight.

Ellyrian Reavers: My idea for these is to take out war machines and such. My opponents so far have taken no cannons, stone throwers or anything else that stands back and shoots. So far they have been rather useless. I can see them really helping in certain situations. I haven't used my eagle yet, but I'm thinking it's pretty similar.

Phoenix Guard: Only used in 1 battle but they come in a close second to the Sword Masters for me. Hard to kill (for Elves anyway) and decent killing power. Causing fear is just a bonus.

Archers: Nothing gamebreaking here. Nice to shoot things 30 inches away and soften up the enemy a little bit.

On the Sea Guard, they're a really handy unit if your plan is to force the enemy to come to you. In this role they function as a unit of archers capable of switching to spearmen when the enemy reaches your lines, effectively you get two units for the price of one.

If you take a more offensive approach and have a list full of Swordmasters and Dragon Princes set to charge across the board at the enemy, then Sea Guard don't really work, as to be effective as archers they have to behind the main advance, or to be effective as spearmen they have to forgo shooting. In this case you get one unit, working suboptimally.

My sentiments on LSG basically coincide with sebster. If you're an aggressive player, they're not ideal since you lose out on one of the 'perks' of having the bows. If you're playing defensively, these guys can be quite fantastic. A unit of LSG bunkered up in a Building can be a real thorn in your opponent's side.

Prince Tyrion - He got a bit of a nerf with 8th Edition (Immunity to flaming/breath attacks -> 2+ Ward, Regen/Ward don't stack.) You're usually also losing the benefit of his M10 for the most part. Still, he's not a bad Lord, though he is quite pricey. In terms of entourage, I'd generally recommend DPs over Silver Helms simply because they're a lot better for the points. If you're short on points and need the numbers, though, Silver Helms should suffice.

Teclis - He's the ultimate glass-cannon. Can be absolutely devastating, and even without Throne of Vines on, can usually throw dice around with impunity (ignore 1st miscast every turn = fantastic). First castings of Dwellers can throw off opponents who would be expecting Throne of Vines first, usually. The danger, however, comes from getting Teclis and his body-guard unit caught up in CC, cause even if he's well protected, he can be targeted in close combat, and WILL die from even just a handful of hits.

Archmages/Mages - Personally, I'm not sold on the Book of Ashur, though for 70 points, it's not a bad option per-se.
Lately, I've been toying around with the idea of spamming Lvl1 High Mages to 1-die spam Shield of Saphery on units. I'll report when I get some playtesting in.

My personal favourite HE units are the spearmen and the eagle claw.

My favourite magic items for a prince: DA of Caledor + Vambraces of defence = 2+ re-rollable armour save with a 4+ ward save and a 2+ ward save against flaming attacks.

The spearmen are cheap and can dish out a wave of attacks. The claw is priceless and a must have in my opinion.

Also tiranoc chariots are excellent sopport units for the spearmen blocks.

kizzdougs wrote:The claw is priceless and a must have in my opinion.

Yeah, I've heard a lot of people say it's overpriced and not as worth it in this edition, but I had 100 points to fill and the model (actually 3 of them...), so I put it in my army. In all (3) of the games I've played with it so far, it has killed its points or above. Once, in the first two turns!

By "Eagle Claws", are you referring to Great Eagles? I haven't used them yet, but I can see their uses right away already.

No, eagle claw refers to the bolt throwers in a High Elf list, I believe.

And thumbs up for eagles. Those things are a pain in the rear...

Oh ok. I was at one point considering doing a Repeater Crossbow spam list, and just form a gun line along with 40 or so Archers.

I'll post another list more "shooty" orientated sometime...

Ok, so to further my review on other High Elf units, I've had the chance to play the following:

Korhil, Captain of the White Lions: A cheaper beatstick that can attach to any Infantry unit. I really like him a lot, and his extra attack comes in very handy too. I find myself attaching him to either a Phoenix Guard Squad, or to my Spearmen block, so that when it comes time for stronger attacks out of the unit, I've got at least one guy that can dish out the Str 6 pain. Haven't used him on a chariot yet, but plan to soon. Has anyone tried that option with him before? Care to share your experiences with it?

Spearmen: I've learned to be very abusive with these guys, and it only occurred to me when I thought of using them as a Horde. Now in games on 2000 points or more, I'll have a block of at least 50 Spearmen (10 wide, 5 deep) ready for every game I play. Four ranks attacking on a charge, and five ranks fighting when not charging? I'll gladly take that!

Archers: Effective in large numbers, in my experience, at least. First time I played them I took two blocks of 20 (40 total), and just formed a "bow"-line ( ) with them. Even against a Storm Banner, the Archers were able to pick off close to 30 clan rats in the first 3 rounds. After that, my Infantry comprised targets started dwindling, and I had to aim them towards bigger things that were easier to hit, but harder to wound. They also are a tad expensive for what they do, and they have to pay for Light Armor. I think I'd rather stick with Sea Guard over them, but that's only if I ever run out of Spearmen to add to my horde.

Phoenix Guard: Great special unit with amazing survival rate. Having a 4+ Ward Save makes them pretty hard to kill, and their Halberds make them at least above average in CC. I'm anxious to try using the Lore of Shadow with them, and take advantage of their Ld 9 score.

White Lions of Chrace: ZOMG! What a kick-ass unit! I think I honestly like them better than my Sword Masters. For five less attacks, I get to upgrade my Str from 5 to 6 instead. The first time I played them was against a Skaven player, who had a Plague Furnace and 2 Doom Wheels. My unit of 20 with Full Command destroyed the Plague Furnace, along with 20 Monks, and a Doom Wheel before ultimately meeting their demise... I think I got a good return rate on them.

Great Eagles: Played them for the first time against a Skaven player too, although they were rendered less useful because he brought a Storm Banner. Following turn, however, they assaulted a few Warp Fire Throwers, and were able to cause some havoc to my opponents flank and whatnot. Not bad, although I have concerns for their survivability. Would the spell "Regrowth" from the Life Lore be able to help regain lost wounds on them?

Dragon Princes: Awesome heavy cavalry, albeit expensive, they're well worth their points, IMHO. I forgot that the Lance gives a +2 bonus to Str on the charge, so I short changed myself for a game with them, but they still pulled their weight as well as I needed them to. Immunity to Fire and Fire Magic is great, although I haven't experienced a game where Flammable attacks were very prevalent, even against an army with 4 Warp Fire Throwers.

Dragon Princes aren't immune to fire anymore. GW FAQ'd it and they just get a 2+ ward save against it. Some would say it's still strong, but I just see it as a further nerf for an already expensive choice.

Hmm... Guess I missed the FAQ then. Either way, a 2+ Ward against Fire is still pretty damn good. Combined with a 2+ Armor Save that comes before it, I think my chances of surviving are pretty good. However, I will say that without the Charge, they are average at best. However, each time I've played them, it's only because I play Tyrion too, which obviously helps. In games that I don't run Tyrion, I've not fielded DP's yet. I'll have to see how I can make the unit more efficient without Tyrion attached.

It just seems sorta... wrong, to field Korhil in any unit other than White Lions.

Limey wrote:It just seems sorta... wrong, to field Korhil in any unit other than White Lions.

It's not very fluffy. But putting him in with PG is pretty powerful. Same with Caradryan into some White Lions.

You should not worry so much on great eagle survivability, in an army of expensive and "weak" elite infantry...these low cost birds are more or less the most expandable unit you got... There are so many ways to use them its just silly...they can block/redirect charges, take out warmchines, catch fleeing units, hunt down wizards, get of some sneaky rear charges for extra combat resolution when you need it. Their uses are near infinite, if only they had a plastic model...

Repeater Boltthrowers are a "so-so" choice, some say they cost to many points, others that they are worth it..main issue is that for each "Eagles Claw" you can have two Great Eagles, wich are "better" in most cases. Though I think they still have their uses so I keep atleast 1 in each list I make.

I'd also advice you to try out the Banner of Sorcery(unless you have already, did not read any comments about it, though I am slighty tired *shrugs*).
Its one of the biggest "no-brainers" in the entire Rulebook, aslong as you use magic that is.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The overall "best" way to use Dragonprinces is to keep them cheap, 5 elves with musician and standard(in some cases), though I always include a Drakemaster aswell..its just seems wrong to leave out a part of the Command...anyways keep them at a low cost so they won't attract too much fire.
One good setup is to give them Banner of Eternal Flame and go after things with Hellpit Abominations, treemen and such.
Also a Potion of Strength on the Drakemaster will help them if they get charged or stuck in combat, or if just you want to dish out 3 Strength 9 hits to some nasty thing.

Silver Helms are arguebly a better unit for Tyrion to hang around with, since they cost less you can add more bodies cheaper and they won't lose attacks like Dragonprinces does in the Second Rank.

Rurouni Benshin wrote:Would the spell "Regrowth" from the Life Lore be able to help regain lost wounds on them?

Yes as long as it isn't a character mount, for mounts you can only use the lore attribute.

Yeah, I do realize that not playing Korhil with a squad of White Lions would be "unfluffy", and will probably get a few weird stares if he's played with another unit. I was just saying that with his Strength, it would probably be best used in a squad that has a lower overall Strength. In all of my lists, I also play a Noble with a Great Weapon, so with Korhil that would make 2 Characters with Str 6 attacks. I'm going to try running him on a chariot and see how that works. Having a higher Toughness and a few more Wounds never hurt. Only problem is that he'd be isolated without a unit to protect him, but an 8" base charge range is going to be very useful.

In any case, I want to try using Caradryan soon, and I'll have a review of him up as well. Thanks for the input, everyone!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that I have used the Banner of Sorcery before. A-MAZING! And if I have Teclis in the list, I'm going to have an average of 10 Casting Dice each turn.

Magic FTW!

Caradryan is a good suicide bomber. Hit's like a sack of hammers, and is bound to take his opponent out with him as well.

Placing him in a non Phoenix Guard unit is good as well, because that'll give you two units on the table that cause fear.

In a unit of Spearman or LSG, he'll serve just as good a roll as you envision Korhil, since he's hitting at Str 5, and doing d3 flaming wounds. Bring that Hyrda or HPA on.