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Hi

I have noticed alot of people on here giving Death company a bad reputation. I dont see why this is? I have a unit of 5(1 power weapon & power fist) led by a recclusiarch and thrown into a rhino/redeemer(depending on points value) and even those 6 models can effectively destroy the intended target on the charge.

Ive never had a problem with them so I dont understand why there are some who say they are overpriced(only 2 more points than an assault marine)and that rage cripples them!

Rage can be irritating but blocking LOS to the nearest target with a spare rhino works. Or if you have to bail on the transport(blows up/immobilised) then clever positioning works too.

Maybe im just being blind as I havent used anything in their stead, or maybe I am one of the few who has had good results from them?

anywho, rant over!

Rage can be solved by placing them in a transport.

Problem is they're not scoring and they are expensive.

Here is what I do not understand: How are they exspensive?

You get WS 5, BS 4 (who can shoot eather 24" or 2x12" and still charge!) A2 (with options of 2 weaponds) S4 I4 with furius charge and on top of that they are T4, Power armour with feel no pain.

They are almoast harder to kill then a terminator, at half the price. Also they got the best part of both Khorn Berzerkers and Plague Marines, both who cost more then them.

Yes they have rage, but if you look at what you actualy buy you get a bargain.

Also Deathbysoup, for the points your are paying for the reclusiarch you can get 5 DK marines. I know you loose the re-roll on the hammer and the sword and you loose another power weapon but you gain a lott more attacks and wounds.

Deathbysoup wrote:Hi

I have noticed alot of people on here giving Death company a bad reputation. I dont see why this is? I have a unit of 5(1 power weapon & power fist) led by a recclusiarch and thrown into a rhino/redeemer(depending on points value) and even those 6 models can effectively destroy the intended target on the charge.

Ive never had a problem with them so I dont understand why there are some who say they are overpriced(only 2 more points than an assault marine)and that rage cripples them!

Rage can be irritating but blocking LOS to the nearest target with a spare rhino works. Or if you have to bail on the transport(blows up/immobilised) then clever positioning works too.

Maybe im just being blind as I havent used anything in their stead, or maybe I am one of the few who has had good results from them?

anywho, rant over!

there's nothing wrong with them per se. Its just that they could have been assault marines, who have 90% of the capability but only 50% of the cost. they kill stuff in close combat, no doubt. but you could have killed more stuff by taking twice as many assault marines.

Not scoring, not worth the premium over assault marines.

Here's my 2c...

I play a DoA army and they don't work well with this style list for competitive gaming unless you're willing to invest heavily in them. I ran Lemartes with a squad of five (4x power weapon, 1x melter pistol & power fist - jump packs) in a Storm Raven with a DC dread (Blood Talons). The DC dread is awesome, Lemartes is awesome... The Death Company hits like a ton of bricks on the charge then your opponent nukes them back to Hell.

I think they can definitely work in a mech list since you don't need the jump packs and this saves you a ton of points.

The thing about Blood Angels is that with the Sanguinary Priests your entire army can potentially have furious charge and feel no pain. Going back to DoA style lists I'd rather run a full assault with a Chaplain and Priest attached. They hit like a ton of bricks as well - no the assault Marines aren't WS5 and they don't reroll wounds on the charge but you don't have to worry about them raging. DC in a DoA list can mean you cant afford to make any mistakes. So to me DC is more of a novelty than anything else... They are there for the fluff Nazis/bunnies.

I have played a pure DC army - it's very powerful but also can easily become unhinged. If you like them and they work for you then really that's all that matters.

I use a small squad of them along with the DC DN... Running them with the Storm Raven or a LR, they are REALLY hard hitting. Problem being the only way I win games with this list is by wiping out the other side (usually, at 1850 I can field some more troops). Note, they aren't really in my "competitive" lists (Vanguard Vets do that job in a Drop list)... But they are really fun, and since I've always played the DC with my FT lists, it just feels right :-)

Well if it feels right then run it. Best to use those units you enjoy playing.

Deathbysoup wrote:I dont understand why there are some who say they are overpriced(only 2 more points than an assault marine)and that rage cripples them!

Assault Marines come with a free Jump Pack, Death Company have to pay 15 points per model for a jump pack which makes them nearly twice the price. If you skip on the Jump Packs they become more affordable, but they lose a lot of effectiveness, and rage becomes more of an issue. Death Company need to make sure they get the assault, with Jump packs this is easy since they have an 18" range. Without Jump packs it's harder, especially when Black Rage will force them to wander right inside any nearby enemy unit's assault range. The only sure way to get the assault is to drop them out of an assault vehicle like a Land Raider or Storm Raven, but this makes them insanely expensive again (Though obviously having a LR/SR thrown in sweetens the deal).

The main problem with them I find is that getting them to work disrupts the whole synergy of your list. You end up thinking about Land Raiders and Storm Ravens in a DoA list, and then you start thinking about ditching an Elite Slot so you can buy a Chaplain, or looking into special Characters like Atorath and Lemartes... Soon it starts to feel like your whole list is just designed around making Death Company not suck.

Then when you compare them to ordinary assault squads with a priest, who also get Furious Charge and FNP, and come with free Jump Packs and zero Rage... Death Company start to look pretty pointless.

At least they look pointless on paper. The models still look damn cool in the flesh... But if you want an army that's not just for show, the best thing is to loot the kits for parts, paint your assault squads back if need be, then forget all about Death Company.

SmackCakes wrote:

Deathbysoup wrote:I dont understand why there are some who say they are overpriced(only 2 more points than an assault marine)and that rage cripples them!

Assault Marines come with a free Jump Pack, Death Company have to pay 15 points per model for a jump pack which makes them nearly twice the price. If you skip on the Jump Packs they become more affordable, but they lose a lot of effectiveness, and rage becomes more of an issue. Death Company need to make sure they get the assault, with Jump packs this is easy since they have an 18" range. Without Jump packs it's harder, especially when Black Rage will force them to wander right inside any nearby enemy unit's assault range. The only sure way to get the assault is to drop them out of an assault vehicle like a Land Raider or Storm Raven, but this makes them insanely expensive again (Though obviously having a LR/SR thrown in sweetens the deal).

The main problem with them I find is that getting them to work disrupts the whole synergy of your list. You end up thinking about Land Raiders and Storm Ravens in a DoA list, and then you start thinking about ditching an Elite Slot so you can buy a Chaplain, or looking into special Characters like Atorath and Lemartes... Soon it starts to feel like your whole list is just designed around making Death Company not suck.

Then when you compare them to ordinary assault squads with a priest, who also get Furious Charge and FNP, and come with free Jump Packs and zero Rage... Death Company start to look pretty pointless.

At least they look pointless on paper. The models still look damn cool in the flesh... But if you want an army that's not just for show, the best thing is to loot the kits for parts, paint your assault squads back if need be, then forget all about Death Company.

I actually think thats the other way around:

No Packs > Transport > Ignores Rage (Until until you get out but at that point I would think you would get choice of assaults)

Transports save the problem of rage, the main problem with rage is that you dont go where you want. Throw em in a transport and you dont get that problem. You can pick and choose.

I much preffer DC as pure assault models as they have 2 very important things, most specifically against MEQs. They have a higher WS and furious charge which gives them a higher I and S on the charge.

Out of a Land raider you are most likely getting to choose who you charge at which makes the enemies scoring units very vulnerable.

DC being a non scoring unit isnt an issue, you get 6 troops choices anyways, plenty of scope to capture. I just think of them as elite choices

10 death company, 1 hammer, 1 drop pod = 165

2 dreadnought 2 drop pods = 320

No land raiders and sutch nonsence, 3 troop slots and 485 points and you have some units that MUST die.

Niiai wrote:10 death company, 1 hammer, 1 drop pod = 165

2 dreadnought 2 drop pods = 320

No land raiders and sutch nonsence, 3 troop slots and 485 points and you have some units that MUST die.

But none of which score ... thats a problem in two thirds of games.

The DC don't score, but they can prevent an enemy troop unit from scoring. Assault Terminators don't score either, but a lot of Marine players still use them.

I'm not in favor of comparing DC to assault marines. For one thing the assault marines have almost no chance against the heaviest hitters in the game, which the DC can destroy or severely neuter in one charge.

TH/SS Terminators are one of the most common counter assault unit in the game. IMO every army needs something to deal with them. 10 assault marines with a Priest can not reliably do that. The best you can hope for it mutual destruction. 5 DC with PW and Chappy will deal 15 PW wounds to any WS 4 T 4 target at initiative 5. That can reliably wipe out the assault terminators before thwey can strike (even the twin lightning claw ones).

There are other heavy hitters on par with the TH/SS Terminators which 10 assault marines + Priest will struggle with. Thunderwolf Cav and Bloodcrushers are still very common in their respective lists.

Rage can throw all your plans into the basket, but the best way to mitigate that is with a Land Raider transport. I feel a Land Raider is a good buy in most every Marine list. It draws fire away from other tanks in your army, it can shield the movement of your Furioso(s) or another unit (assault marines maybe) as it moves up and it can cover a valuable unit from enemy Loota fire. The LR will also transport the DC to the place they need to be to get the assault off and win the fight.

This doesn't mean I advocate taking the LR + DC straight into the enemy lines. The LR + DC provide an excellent counter assault element you use when the enemy has gotten something nasty into your lines. They are the Blood Angles replacement for the assault Terminator. Flavorfull and more powerfull on the charge, that is the best role for the Death Company.

The assault marines with the priest look good on paper, but since the priest is an IC he can easaly die. And you are paying 75 points for that priest if he is gonne have a jump pack. The death company still put out more attack then them even with the ekstra character.

The only thing the assault marines can do better besides, scoring, is dropping down with meltas with decent of angels. But is scoring that big of a deal? Perhaps in 2000+ games, but moast of the time you never fill out the 6 unit slots. And marines can split the unit up, using the remaining 5 unit slotts to get 10 scoring units, half of witch can be in razorbacks or landraiders if you want to. I really do not se that they are not scooring as a good argument. Bying a death company unit or a dreadnought is like trading a troop slott for a elite slott, something a lott of people would prefere. In 1 3rd of the games you do not care about objectives and then the priest + assault marines is worth one ekstra kill point.

And what is you assault marines doing objective camping anyway? They are assault marines, so get your ass of that objective. One of the best objective sitters is regular marines, witch you can have plenty off.

I personaly am not a fan of the landraider, because it cost's to mutch to die from a landspeeder, railgunn or a zoanthrope. But a rhino witch is fast is very good.

I am not saying it is the best unit in the game, but what you do get for 20 points of investment is pure gold. People seem to forget that, all they se is the rage.

There are other uber assault units BA have access to that can counter the opponent's assault terminators such as a choppy HG lead by a Libby with Unleash Rage or Vanguard vets. Both HG and VV have access to power weapon/lightning claw(s)/power fist/thunderhammers and stormshields.

If for some reason a unit of DC have their transport shot down before they reach assault that could definitely be a big problem.

Ok being too narrow there.

DC are good but they require allot more work to use effectively.
Assault Terminators have a great save and a thunder hammer ... most importantly they go where I tell them.
Tactical marines ... bread and butter unit can fit into most lists and add to the army.
Assault marines are great value they can even get you a discount on transports (so long as you don't take a full unit). Should also be noted that you can get the special weapon ever 5 models (hand flamer's nice though a bit expensive)

I personally have always liked the DC. Other than a Power Fist, the other 5 have bread-and butter chainsword-and-bolt pistol (I got them when the PDF codex was the official 'dex, when they couldn't take anything better than a CCW and a bolt pistol), and a Chaplain w/ jump pack. I basically let them rampage across the board, as their jump packs let them move 12" then assault another 6. 18" in one turn lets me cover most of the ground in the games I play most in. Before they die, they generally wipe out 2-3 squads, in my experience, earning their points back and then some.

I don't use them as a strategic asset, that's what my tact squad, assault squads, and devastators are for....I use them to wreak havoc on the enemy lines so that they can never really focus on my main army with the crazed monster tearing them apart. Also, the FNP means they need to devote some pretty heavy firepower to take them out.

The Litanies of Hate helps in assault, and they generally throw around around 23-24 attacks, depending on the loadout, and I've had good things come from them.

Mind you, I've yet to try out Sanguinary Priests nor do I run more than a few Assault Marines, sot that may affect my opinion.

Also, deep striking behind enemy lines helps too, less of chance to Focus Fire on them before they cause some serious carnage.

My issue with DC is two fold, they are expensive, and they are a one use unit. Once you've disembarked then from their transport and killed your target unit(hopefully) then they're going to be led around by the nose for the rest of the game.

Niiai wrote:Here is what I do not understand: How are they exspensive?

30 Death Company with jump packs and duel thunder hammers=2850 points.

Nobody can say it's impossible for a bad player to overspend on DC.

Their jump packs are very expensive so between the cost of jump packs and rage they need to be mechanized which excludes from from an all jump army.

A single unit in a Rhino with a HQ chaplain is a mini deathstar. The thing is it should fill role place of an elite unit in a mech BA army, and the player needs to avoid underspending on troops that score. Being non scoring is a non issue for a single unit of DC, just think of them as an elites choice instead. BA can live with 5 troops choices that score +1 DC, there isn't a shortage of troops.

Niiai wrote:10 death company, 1 hammer, 1 drop pod = 165

265 points, DC are 20 points a pop not 10.

They can be enormously expensive, but nobody I know would think to use a 30-man squad of DC.

I run 6, and I can easily fit it into a 1800-point, or even a 1500-point game, the two most common sizes I tend to play. Really, it depends on how much points you're running, you will likely want two scoring units at the very least.

They are also killing machines, if you give them a power fist or two to have a go at any walkers or MCs they rage into, there's very little they cannot kill.

A 30 man squad is stupid. Seriously.

Honestly, I love playing with the Death Company and Astorath. 10 man Death Comany attach w/Astorath and another 9 man Death Comany in a StormRaven w/Chaplin.