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My question is, if a model is equipped with a Pf or something that increases its strength, does the furious charge bonus get added to their base strength or their augmented strength? So for example, if a BA sergeant with a PF succumbed to the Red Thirst and then assaulted, would he add the +1 str to his base str of 4 and then double it or add it to the already doubled strength?

You double it before you add any other modifiers, so it would be S9

OK, thanks!

Which is handily how it works in real world maths as well.

Page 7, multiple modifiers if you want the rules for this.

I understand the strength part of it.The bit i have become unsure of is does the PF act at I5 because of FC or would he still strike at I1.I ask because i have a VGV with a PF and a captain who i use as " counts as " Khan and i am somewhat confused.

Pedro Kantor wrote:I understand the strength part of it.The bit i have become unsure of is does the PF act at I5 because of FC or would he still strike at I1.I ask because i have a VGV with a PF and a captain who i use as " counts as " Khan and i am somewhat confused.

The power fist causes the I5 model to strike at I1. It does this because of the last sentence of the Power Fist rules on page 42.

solkan wrote:

Pedro Kantor wrote:I understand the strength part of it.The bit i have become unsure of is does the PF act at I5 because of FC or would he still strike at I1.I ask because i have a VGV with a PF and a captain who i use as " counts as " Khan and i am somewhat confused.

The power fist causes the I5 model to strike at I1. It does this because of the last sentence of the Power Fist rules on page 42.

But against lash whips you go @ init 2 with furious charge, but not with Power fists.

Q: If a model with Lash Whips is attacking a model
with an Initiative-boosting rule/piece of wargear (e.g.
Furious Charge, an Eldar Banshee Mask etc.), which
order are the Initiatives modified?
A: The Lash Whips will reduce an enemy model’s
initiative to 1 before any other modifiers are
applied. So, a model with Furious Charge that
assaults a Tyranid with Lash Whips will strike at
Initiative 2, and an Eldar with a Banshee Mask will
strike at Initiative 10 in the first round of assault.

Have you ever heard of BODMAS? It was an acronym used in maths classes in my local area, which boils down to:

Brackets
Over
Division
Multiplication
Addition
Subtraction

The above should be the order in which mathematical calculations are resolved, so as has already been stated, the mulltiplication of strength would happen before the +1 from furious charge.

liam0404 wrote:Have you ever heard of BODMAS? It was an acronym used in maths classes in my local area, which boils down to:

Brackets
Over
Division
Multiplication
Addition
Subtraction

The above should be the order in which mathematical calculations are resolved, so as has already been stated, the mulltiplication of strength would happen before the +1 from furious charge.

Forgetting something I believe:

Parenthesis
Exponents
Multiplication
Division
Addition
Subtraction

Read the FAQ the answer is in there for you. you only get ST8? Why i dont now its kinda lame, but at the same time you dont get much from 8 to 9 ernless your attacking armour.

No, the FAQ is addressing weapons themselves that strike at a particular Strength. Astorath's Axe, Hunting Lances, etc. it has nothing to do with fists who modify the user's Strength.

Q: Does the Furious Charge special rule give +1 Strength
to attacks made with a close combat weapon that strikes
at a specific strength value? For example are hits from
Gabriel Seth’s Blood Reaver resolved at Strength 8 or 9
when he has Furious Charge? (p75)
A: No. Hits from Gabriel Seth’s Blood Reaver would still be
resolved at Strength 8.

liam0404 wrote:Have you ever heard of BODMAS? It was an acronym used in maths classes in my local area, which boils down to:

Brackets
Over
Division
Multiplication
Addition
Subtraction

The above should be the order in which mathematical calculations are resolved, so as has already been stated, the mulltiplication of strength would happen before the +1 from furious charge.

That's a very interesting acronym. However, it doesn't work. Division and Multiplication happen simultaneously, as does Addition and Subtraction.

For the problem "5 - 3 + 2", it's the difference between:

Wrong: 5 - 3 + 2 = 5 - 5 = 0
Right: 5 - 3 + 2 = 2 + 2 = 4

Grakmar, that's because you're adding it wrong. -3 + 2 is -1.

Grakmar wrote:That's a very interesting acronym. However, it doesn't work. Division and Multiplication happen simultaneously, as does Addition and Subtraction

It works when it's applied correctly. With minor variations (different countries put the D and the M in different order, for example) it's been the standard procedure taught in schools all over the planet for decades.

But yes, applied correctly division and multiplication happen left to right, rather than specifically division first or vice versa. Likewise with addition and subtraction. BOMDAS should actually be read as
Brackets
Over
Multiplication and Division
Addition and Subtraction

Math in 40k? Thats as crazy as common sense!

I've learned it as BIDMAS, which means: Brackets, Indices, Division, Multiplication, Addition, Subtraction.

In the US we're taught PEMDAS, as Che-Vito said.

Parenthesis
Exponents
Multiplication
Division
Addition
Subtraction

Yeah, there's a whole lot of those acronyms around.
In my school we leaarned BEMA:

Brackets
Exponents
Multiplication/Division
Adition/Subtraction

Which I prefer to many of the others as I've seen people getting very confused by believing the 6-letter versions mean that multiplication must happen before division and addition before subtraction, which is not the case.

CommissarCandlestick wrote:I've learned it as BIDMAS, which means: Brackets, Indices, Division, Multiplication, Addition, Subtraction.

Likewise.

Thanks for letting us know, Loki.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Thanks for letting us know, Loki.

I'm sure he appreciates your spiteful patronisation, SlowPoke.

liam0404 wrote:Have you ever heard of BODMAS? It was an acronym used in maths classes in my local area, which boils down to:

Brackets
Over
Division
Multiplication
Addition
Subtraction

The 'O' is for Orders

Grakmar wrote:

liam0404 wrote:Have you ever heard of BODMAS? It was an acronym used in maths classes in my local area, which boils down to:

Brackets
Over
Division
Multiplication
Addition
Subtraction

The above should be the order in which mathematical calculations are resolved, so as has already been stated, the mulltiplication of strength would happen before the +1 from furious charge.

That's a very interesting acronym. However, it doesn't work. Division and Multiplication happen simultaneously, as does Addition and Subtraction.

For the problem "5 - 3 + 2", it's the difference between:

Wrong: 5 - 3 + 2 = 5 - 5 = 0
Right: 5 - 3 + 2 = 2 + 2 = 4

It does work. You've made an error in your 'wrong' equation: the second part does not read "3 + 2", it reads "-3 + 2" which as you know equals -1. 5 - 1 = 4

WhiteSkyBanshee wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Thanks for letting us know, Loki.

I'm sure he appreciates your spiteful patronisation, SlowPoke.

Hey, calm down Banshee!

CommissarCandlestick wrote:I've learned it as BIDMAS, which means: Brackets, Indices, Division, Multiplication, Addition, Subtraction.

What's an indices in American? Exponents?

Requia wrote:

CommissarCandlestick wrote:I've learned it as BIDMAS, which means: Brackets, Indices, Division, Multiplication, Addition, Subtraction.

What's an indices in American? Exponents?

Well, indices is plural of index. But yeah, same as exponents

What ever happened to " Peperoni Pizza Makes (a) Delicious Afternoon Snack?"

Parentheses
Powers
Multiplications & Division
Addition Subtraction

R3con wrote:What ever happened to " Peperoni Pizza Makes (a) Delicious Afternoon Snack?"

Parentheses
Powers
Multiplications & Division
Addition Subtraction

Americans took it too literally

Ulver wrote:

liam0404 wrote:Have you ever heard of BODMAS? It was an acronym used in maths classes in my local area, which boils down to:

Brackets
Over
Division
Multiplication
Addition
Subtraction

The 'O' is for Orders

Grakmar wrote:

liam0404 wrote:Have you ever heard of BODMAS? It was an acronym used in maths classes in my local area, which boils down to:

Brackets
Over
Division
Multiplication
Addition
Subtraction

The above should be the order in which mathematical calculations are resolved, so as has already been stated, the mulltiplication of strength would happen before the +1 from furious charge.

That's a very interesting acronym. However, it doesn't work. Division and Multiplication happen simultaneously, as does Addition and Subtraction.

For the problem "5 - 3 + 2", it's the difference between:

Wrong: 5 - 3 + 2 = 5 - 5 = 0
Right: 5 - 3 + 2 = 2 + 2 = 4

It does work. You've made an error in your 'wrong' equation: the second part does not read "3 + 2", it reads "-3 + 2" which as you know equals -1. 5 - 1 = 4

Seriously, if you need an acronym to remember the order of operations, I am pretty sure the concept of adding a negative number to a positive number would likely be lost on you.
The reality is, its a misleading acronym that establishes a sequential order for something that happens simultaneously, and while yes, you could rewrite the problem to make it work, that fails to address that the acronym is itself flawed.
The 4 letter one makes more sense. (For the record, I don't recall learning any acronym for it.)

Why are we digging up threads from a month and a half ago to continue a maths discussion?