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Okay so I picked up warmachine, and I play as the Retribution Of Scyrah (help with pronouncing it please) a friend of mine is playing cryx and has Lich Lord Terminus, I saw this dudes card and whatnot I gotta say that is scary to see comming at me how would I beat this guy?

Right now I have Warcaster Ravyn, and some stormfall archers for now. But the more I read that guys card the scarier he seems, he is one tough dude to take on and his spells, abilities, and feat are no joke either, any advice how I can take this guy on?

Locomotion a jack with two open fists up to him, initiate two handed throw, charge with a pair of Mage Hunter Assassins.

I don't think arcane assassin on the mhas will ignore ARM buffs from
his feat. At least they won't on the first turn when he's getting
the ARM from soul tokens.

So get to him before the feat. Not like he offers buffs to the army's speed or anything. Terminus is a straightforward guy; he barrels towards you focus camping and doesn't give out focus for anything, so his army is basically on it's own except for getting Tough. On top of that, he generally likes to be up front. All of this combined says it shouldn't that hard to accomplish the above before he can get souls. Just make sure you get the Bile Thralls with ranged attacks and you're on easy street.

Wow, what you said made it seems pretty easy. Which definately makes me feel better. Yeah I noticed I dont want him having souls, but now I have to be even more picky he liked bile thralls and he has a deathjack he got recently

Getting to terminus to make the trow is not that easy as he makes it sound IMHO. Terminus will be screened by most of his army and will be though to boot. The jack you send in might not arive undamaged if he has to walk. If it tramples next to him he can't use a power attack.

I agree that making sure he does not get souls is key to you success, but taking all the biles out can be tricky. They are not high def, not high arm. But all that has to survive is 1 to make a good purge.

I think I would try to outlive his army. try killing as many of the army as possible a turn. They may be though, but they will fail a lot of rolls too. Then when most of that is out of the way you can cma Terminus. Only problem I see is making sure you keep him at a distance, as normally a cryx army is already fast, even without caster support. (mechthralls 6, biles 5, satyxis (unlikely with terminus) 7)

I would say good luck if I where not biased

So would my stormfall archers with their blast arrows be of any help to wittle down his numbers? or atleast divert/distract the army? Or should I just leave the stormfall archers at home?

as I understand stormfalls are there to whittle numbers or put a few good shots on a harder target. I think they will be an excellent choiche to whittle down the numbers. As long as the opponent does not make to many tough rolls you will be clearing enough infantry...

LordRavurion wrote:Getting to terminus to make the trow is not that easy as he makes it sound IMHO. Terminus will be screened by most of his army and will be though to boot. The jack you send in might not arive undamaged if he has to walk. If it tramples next to him he can't use a power attack.

I agree that making sure he does not get souls is key to you success, but taking all the biles out can be tricky. They are not high def, not high arm. But all that has to survive is 1 to make a good purge.

I think I would try to outlive his army. try killing as many of the army as possible a turn. They may be though, but they will fail a lot of rolls too. Then when most of that is out of the way you can cma Terminus. Only problem I see is making sure you keep him at a distance, as normally a cryx army is already fast, even without caster support. (mechthralls 6, biles 5, satyxis (unlikely with terminus) 7)

I would say good luck if I where not biased

If you're running Ravyn and Terminus still has a screen you're doing it wrong. The entire army should be threating 16"+ giving you two rounds of shooting with some considerable firepower and one is likely a feat turn for boosted hit rolls. Tough also ends up being a double edged sword for Terminus' screen as sacking move or action is going to slow the affair down. If something passes it's Tough check leave it alone, it's not a threat for the next turn.

So would my stormfall archers with their blast arrows be of any help to wittle down his numbers? or atleast divert/distract the army? Or should I just leave the stormfall archers at home?

Range is your friend and the unit can snipe themselves (among other highly useful things) to go up to 16" without caster support. On top of that Mech and Bile thralls don't require special ammo and even without the feat are easy enough to hit.

Terminus is a one-trick pony. It's a hell of a trick if you're unprepared, but I've seen him often enough that's its nowhere near as threatening as I once thought. Between the two of them, my MHAs have about a half a half dozen kills on big T (even Ravyn has two). You just have to realize the limitations of Terminus as a caster.

Yeah I checked his stat card again, he is very limited ravager seems like a double-edged sword in that the targeted jack cannot chain attack when affected by that. Hellfire seems not really all that effective. Malediction is okay I guess assuming he gets to me, and Anihilation could be an annoyance seeing how my guys are generally squishy.

His statline is impressive and he turns into a near unstoppable force assuming he gets selfish with his focus and has soul tokens to par. Im thinking stormfall archers will definately be a huge boost to my range as well as a ghost sniper or 2. Also with my Jacks (Myrmidons) should I pretty much use them as a meatshield for my guys to attempt to deny soul tokens? Cause with flight and SPD 6 he is bound to get to me at some point.

-edit- On a side not despite being a one trick pony Im sure he fares much better in battles involving more than one warcaster, and even if not atleast its a very impressive model

question for you about MHAs and Ravyn:

Do you upkeep Vortex of Destruction to add damage dice, and do you risk exposing
Ravyn on the kill turn? Is it do or die? Or do you hedge bets and charge in with the MHAS?

malfred wrote:question for you about MHAs and Ravyn:

Do you upkeep Vortex of Destruction to add damage dice, and do you risk exposing
Ravyn on the kill turn? Is it do or die? Or do you hedge bets and charge in?

No idea I havent played a game with them I will later today against terminus, but I have a plan that might work against my friend

Mastershake wrote:If you're running Ravyn and Terminus still has a screen you're doing it wrong. The entire army should be threating 16"+ giving you two rounds of shooting with some considerable firepower and one is likely a feat turn for boosted hit rolls. Tough also ends up being a double edged sword for Terminus' screen as sacking move or action is going to slow the affair down. If something passes it's Tough check leave it alone, it's not a threat for the next turn.

Assuming that is what he does, he could just leave the knocked down ones behind and have the unit run (depends how many there are).

Are we assuming that Terminus will be fielding maxed out (or close to) Mcthralls and necrosurgeons (38 tough reanimating bodies for 19 points)? It's worth remembering that these are a delivery system for Terminus who can (for free if points allow) have both Ravager and Malediction cast on him on the turn he hits.

Im thinking anyone that falls behind is left behind my friend dosent have much care for his infantry if they do it dosent matter, I know for sure he will be taking 1 full unit of black ogrun boarding party, and revenant cannon crew also 1 maybe 2 pistol wraiths

I've faced down Terminus several times, Retribution have some nice answers, based on what you mentioned you may have
-Storm Fall Archers: cryx is generally lower arm for their swarm infantry, so AOE's even half strengthed still threaten them. Storm Fall can snipe themselves, and you should be able to get 1-2 mobile turn of shooting, IE move forward turn 1, back turn 2.
-Mage Hunters: Ravyn + then should feat early to thin the herd of infantry. You want to force Terminus to feat early. On his feat turn, continue thinning the herd and counter with.
-Assassins: tying him up is nice. Even if you only get a few lucky wounds your still stopping him from advancing on you, allowing you time to counter.
-Manticore: if its alive a combo strike + 3 str late in the game should really leave him staggering on a non feat turn.

He's rough to face for any army. If the opponent is really aggressive and its a steam roller with kill box you may be in trouble, as your forced to close earlier then you really want to. If its kill box, and you go first, take out the infantry. Force him to lead from the front.

George Spiggott wrote:Assuming that is what he does, he could just leave the knocked down ones behind and have the unit run (depends how many there are).

Are we assuming that Terminus will be fielding maxed out (or close to) Mcthralls and necrosurgeons (38 tough reanimating bodies for 19 points)? It's worth remembering that these are a delivery system for Terminus who can (for free if points allow) have both Ravager and Malediction cast on him on the turn he hits.

I was assuming he was leaving the knocked down models in front, because thats where you're shooting from. They only walk 6" instead of running 12", so unless you're stupid close, they aren't going to be threatening you next turn and since they're in the front, the unit's ability to run to engage is still hampered just as if they were dead. It also creates the problem of the unit having trash CMD, so if one of those knocked down models is the unit leader, leaving him isn't an option.

He could field the mechthralls and necro, but why would he? He wants enough sac pawns to get to the caster, not a horde of Tough infantry tripping over each other. He also needs things to get souls for him and half of his points in things with a 9.5" melee threat range with MAT 5, doesn't meet that criteria. I'm fine if my opponent really wants that over other options that are far mre threatening.

All of this considered though, dropping that many models isn't difficult considering their stat line. Any Ravyn list that isn't dumping a ton of points in jacks or melee units should have enough shots to do it in the 2 turns of shooting.

Mastershake wrote:I was assuming he was leaving the knocked down models in front, because thats where you're shooting from. They only walk 6" instead of running 12", so unless you're stupid close, they aren't going to be threatening you next turn and since they're in the front, the unit's ability to run to engage is still hampered just as if they were dead. It also creates the problem of the unit having trash CMD, so if one of those knocked down models is the unit leader, leaving him isn't an option.

They will be behind him when he (and the rest of the unit) advance past them. They're Fearless so being out of coherency isn't a big problem for them. Next turn they run back into coherency.

Mastershake wrote:He could field the mechthralls and necro, but why would he? He wants enough sac pawns to get to the caster, not a horde of Tough infantry tripping over each other. He also needs things to get souls for him and half of his points in things with a 9.5" melee threat range with MAT 5, doesn't meet that criteria. I'm fine if my opponent really wants that over other options that are far mre threatening.

They're a delivery system, they are expendable. They're more than happy to trash warjacks or tie up shooting infantry though.

Mastershake wrote:All of this considered though, dropping that many models isn't difficult considering their stat line. Any Ravyn list that isn't dumping a ton of points in jacks or melee units should have enough shots to do it in the 2 turns of shooting.

Again, they're a delivery system, who cares if they die. All that matters is that enough of them are within 3" of him, active or knocked down it matters not, and that they block charges from heavy warjacks, combat warcasters and particularly tooled up solos. Again, they can often do this while they are knocked down. Can you put out enough shooting with 17 points or thereabouts of Elves, or will he distract your entire army with the thrall horde?