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I was reading the rulebook and realized that if you have a rank and file of 10 per rank you get to attack 3 ranks deep, now I know that spears give you an extra rank to attack, so if you had 10 wide and 4 rows all armed with spears would all 40 rank and file be able to attack because of the hoard rule? Also, could you arm the front 20 with say hand weapons w/ shields and the rear 20 with spears? Also, do soldiers with spears get to have shields?

normally you can't equip models in the same unit differently.


the answer to your question is in your specific army book.



Soldiers can use Shields with Spears because Spears are a single handed weapon.


if you told us which book you were using we could help you better.

Sorry I was going to build a Tomb Kings army

The listing of your units are very clear in what equipment you can and can't have.

i belive your guys MUST purchase 1 item from the following list

Bow
Spear

i can't remember if your guys come with the shields or not.

Skeleton warriors I think are naturally just archers because they come with a hand weapon and bows with no shield. It says any unit may replace their bows with spears and shields for +1 point per model. I am guessing by the term "unit" it means to buy it as a whole.

ahh yes.


it's actually better just to leave them as Archers. combine with Khalida for epic poisoned arrow lols.

Sorry to drag this off topic but if Khalida is killed is are her shooting bonuses lost?

No.

she gives bowmen the option to purchase Poisened Attacks.

I really don't understand why not - front rank should be carrying hand weapons, they're not gonna be able to use a spear to full effect.

I've use spears before obviously, not full weight spears, but they're very difficult to thrust with. you actually need to shift all your weight back when you use one, which means you'd pile into the guy behind you.

front rank should always use a hand weapon or sword. none of this 'spear' stuff. hands down.

Real life=/=warhammer, very important to remember

Even then I dont know any accounts of real life spear regiments with no spears in the front. Its a lot better to keep people without spears outside of sword range

Anyways for something on topic related unfortunately with the horde is that while you do gain quite a few attacks, you also lose out on attacks assuming you fight a unit thats 5 wide. Not to mention spear skeletons are a waste of points anyways

Yes you hit the guy behind you if you thrust, but that's not how you use spears in formation. the entire mob walks forward, thats what puts pressure on the spear tip not the actual thrusting. the enemy's own forward momentum also will help spit them on your weapon.


the main advantage of a spear is it's length.

it allows your guys to not only fight in multiple ranks, but the guys in the front rank can keep the enemy more then the spears length away.


The Phalanx actually relied on the front guys having spears. their weapon would be the first to hit the enemy and would keep the amount of enemies getting in close down to a minimum and each successive rank protected the guy in front of it.

once the enemy got in close the spear would be traded for a sword or dagger, but the spear was used for the majority of the fighting.


it's also one of the cheapest weapons to produce. Metal isn't required, only a straight sharp stick.

the only problem with spears is that once a formation is commited it's nearly impossable to turn.

Funk3140 wrote:I was reading the rulebook and realized that if you have a rank and file of 10 per rank you get to attack 3 ranks deep, now I know that spears give you an extra rank to attack, so if you had 10 wide and 4 rows all armed with spears would all 40 rank and file be able to attack because of the hoard rule? Also, could you arm the front 20 with say hand weapons w/ shields and the rear 20 with spears? Also, do soldiers with spears get to have shields?

To answer the original question...

1. Yes, a horde of 40 warriors (deployed in 4 ranks of 10 files) armed with spears has a potential 40 attacks.

2. All warriors in the unit must be armed with spears. You can't chose to arm only half the regiment with spears.

3. Yes, spear can be used in combination with a shield

Don't conflate "spear" with "pike". A spear can be used to thrust in formation, the trick is you have to balance it so the majority of it can be forward of your hand towards the enemy. The Greeks had a heavy brass end on theirs (which had a rude point on it) to balance the thrust, and be used for downward thrusts as well. Not as handy in close as a sword or the like, but the degrees of freedom and no where near as limited as people think.

Just to comment I think the reason why a whole unit has to use the same weapon is because they need to train to work together and be able to swap positions within the unit freely if it is required.

blak43 wrote:Just to comment I think the reason why a whole unit has to use the same weapon is because they need to train to work together and be able to swap positions within the unit freely if it is required.

It's also in the rules

Flashman wrote:

blak43 wrote:Just to comment I think the reason why a whole unit has to use the same weapon is because they need to train to work together and be able to swap positions within the unit freely if it is required.

It's also in the rules

I know, i'm just trying to state real world precident for why they would write a rule like that.

blak43 wrote:Just to comment I think the reason why a whole unit has to use the same weapon is because they need to train to work together and be able to swap positions within the unit freely if it is required.

It was common for troops to be trained with both spears and hand weapons, so that's not really it. More to the point, the spears of the front rank were the first to contact the enemy, and that's very important in breaking down their momentum. Imagine if the two units are advancing on each other, and the front rank of their spears are in contact with your troops, but your front rank with it's hand weapons needs to keep advancing...

Also, spears can be used in close formation, as they rely mosely on thrusting. Weapons needing to be swung, like most hand weapons, need a looser formation, and so the mix is unlikely to perform as well.

Surprisingly enough, you need very little space to swing most weapons. Most of your power comes from rotating the hips and snapping with the arm; good sword and boarders can throw all their shots essentially shoulder to shoulder with others, and more importantly while keeping their shields touching each others. Really long swords are more of a pain to use (at least for me since I don't have tremendous arm strength) but so long as you can balance it well it isn't a problem.

Before anyone says "Well, yea but big weapons like two handed axes and swords need more space!" that really isn't the case too. Those big, sweeping, Conan is going to bisect you swings are not needed to really mangle people particularly if they are not in full plate.

The key in all this is to remember that the only important things are the speed of the hurting point (generally towards the tip, ~3/4 out) and the weight. You can get the tip of a great sword going horrifically quickly very well by changing your arm's relative position to each other and torquing your hips more effectively than you can swinging it like a baseball bat, and it will be much more difficult to block and deflect because you are not, well, swinging a 4 foot bar of sharpened steel like a baseball bat


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That said, you can REALLY squeeze in with spears and other pole arms, because you don't need to be shoulder to shoulder, but sort of hip to butt. You can't move effectively at all though, so as was stated once you are packed like that it is slowly forward or not at all.

Wehrkind wrote:Surprisingly enough, you need very little space to swing most weapons. Most of your power comes from rotating the hips and snapping with the arm; good sword and boarders can throw all their shots essentially shoulder to shoulder with others, and more importantly while keeping their shields touching each others. Really long swords are more of a pain to use (at least for me since I don't have tremendous arm strength) but so long as you can balance it well it isn't a problem.

Sure, but spearmen were typically deployed in much closer formation than other troops. This may, admittedly, be because once you're skilled enough to operated in close formation the best weapon is the spear.

and long two handed swords could be used like spears too.

the front rank would use them in up and down arcs for major damage, but their buddies behind would thrust forward.


if you needed to use a spear at close range you could always move your grip closer to the tip.

Grey Templar wrote:if you needed to use a spear at close range you could always move your grip closer to the tip.

And punt the guy behind you in the jewels