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Hi everyone,

So I've made 2 different lists, both surrounding a similar bulk in Lord, Hero, Core, and Rare choices. The differences between the two are my Special choices, which TBH, is only different by 1 unit. In the first list, I use Dragon Princes, and in the second I have Sword Masters. Otherwise, they are nearly identical.

Both lists add to 2250 Points exactly. Please feel free to comment on both, and let me know which you feel is the more competitive of the two, and how they can be improved, which I'm suspecting can be done. Thanks!

Version 1:

Lord:
- Teclis - 475 Points

Heroes:
- Noble, Great Weapon, Armor of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix, Battle Standard - 168 Points

Core:
- 58 Spearmen, Sentinel, Musician, Standard Bearer, Magic Standard: War Banner - 567 Points

Special:
- 20 Phoenix Guard, Keeper of the Flame, Musician, Standard Bearer, Magic Standard: Banner of Sorcery - 380 Points

- 20 White Lions, Guardian, Musician, Standard Bearer, Magic Standard: Banner of Eternal Flame, The Skeinsliver - 365

- 5 Dragon Princes, Musician, Standard Bearer, Magic Banner: Banner of Swiftness - 195 Points

Rare:
- 2 Great Eagles - 100 Points

Version 2:

Lord:
- Teclis - 475 Points

Heroes:
- Noble, Great Weapon, Armor of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix, Battle Standard - 168 Points

Core:
- 58 Spearmen, Sentinel, Musician, Standard Bearer, Magic Standard: War Banner - 567 Points

Special:
- 20 Phoenix Guard, Keeper of the Flame, Musician, Standard Bearer, Magic Standard: Banner of Sorcery, The Skeinsliver - 405 Points

- 20 White Lions, Guardian, Musician, Standard Bearer, Magic Standard: Banner of Eternal Flame, Tormentor Sword - 345

- 16 Sword Masters - 240 Points

Rare:
- 1 Great Eagle - 50 Points

So whats your strategy...wait let me guess, throwing 6 dice at mind razor, miscast, no...just IF. then 6 more dice at withering, miscast, no...just IF. So now your WS 6 ST 10 ASF swordmasters are fighting what ever you enemy unit you withered down. I think high elf players who run teclis should just sit in the back of the store and play each other. Its a great list man, but i guarentee you it wont be any fun after the third game. IMO your not playing against high elves, just teclis. im not saying this list is broken, ive beat a list like this in my last tourny, your just gonna get a lot of complaints and then no ones gonna want to play and your gonna end up like the high elf player at my store and trading his army for store credit.

I understand that people who play Teclis may carry somewhat of a stigma with them for playing him. However, mind you, the list is supposed to be competitive, and I'll probably only play it in tournaments. Will I get some unfriendly stares? Probably, but since when do WAAC lists don't?

My first few games have all been without Teclis, and I still managed to do pretty well. For fun and creativity, I'd most likely run something different, but that's not the topic of this thread.

I appreciate the honesty and feedback, E.M. Thanks.

No problem man, that was just my oppinion. You take that list to a tournament and your play cards right, should be in the bag. question, how long have you been playing high elves?

I would have to say go with the second list, but with less spearman and more swordmasters and Stan/Mus for them

I've played a grand total of 4 games, and not only were they with HE, but they were my first games of Fantasy ever.

I've been playing 40K for a little over a year now, so the rules and strategy aren't completely new to me, but I'm still learning as it is.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Great Eagles are not very competitive, drop it and buy a full command for sword masters or get more calvalry. full commands are so important to the game now. specially with a finesse army like high elves.

Looks pretty similar to my list

Ver1 -
One thing I may suggest is to keep the Dragon Princes commandless, or at most, with a musician. While it hurts you for Break-point missions, it also means 25 points less that you would be giving up if these guys get beaten in combat. Since ideally these guys would be jumping in to assist in combat from the flanks or harass enemy back-lines, you may be better off just keeping them cheap. You can redirect the points to get a 6th DP.

Are you planning on using the Spears as the Teclis/BSB body-guard unit?

Ver2 -
I would almost suggest dropping your PG/WL units down to 18 each to bump the Swordmasters up to 18 as well and get them command (seems a good opportunity for it this time around). DEFINITELY worth giving these guys Ironcurse Icon if you can afford it.

If you could scrounge up the points for a second Great Eagle, I don't think you'd be disappointed.

Jin wrote:Looks pretty similar to my list

I learn from the best, Jin

At any rate, I've had a chance to go over some of the suggestions, and have a few questions and comments of my own.

Jin wrote:One thing I may suggest is to keep the Dragon Princes commandless, or at most, with a musician. While it hurts you for Break-point missions, it also means 25 points less that you would be giving up if these guys get beaten in combat. Since ideally these guys would be jumping in to assist in combat from the flanks or harass enemy back-lines, you may be better off just keeping them cheap. You can redirect the points to get a 6th DP.

I'm thinking that the Banner of Swiftness is not as necessary as I thought it would be, since it's likely I won't get a good chance of charging on first turn. Unless the deployment allows me the opportunity to charge on first turn, it's likely to assume I won't get it then, which means I'd be spending my first turn marching and reforming myself into a position where I can on the second turn. That all being said, dropping the points from the Standard and Magic Banner would free up some points for a potential 6th DP.

Jin wrote:Are you planning on using the Spears as the Teclis/BSB body-guard unit?

Yes. This was my intention from the start, so I'd have a sizable unit to help protect Teclis and the Noble. Thinking that I'd be using the Life Lore, I would get to cast Earthbond, giving my Spearmen Regeneration, and be able to cast Flesh to Stone on a Special unit that's expected to be in CC or a unit I know my opponent would likely target first. I also like the idea of casting either Dwellers or Throne of Vines first too. Depending on the terrain on the table, Awakening of Wood is the least useful spell, but Shield of Thorns would be good if I get it cast early enough, as my opponent would probably focus more on trying to dispell other more devastating spells I dish out, and not bother so much with trying to dispel it on his turn.

Question: If I cast Throne of Vines after having already cast Earthbond, Shield of Thorns, or Flesh to Stone (and before the effects of these spells take place), do I get the benefits from Throne of Vines, or would I need to cast Throne of Vines first before casting anything else for the benefits to occur?

Jin wrote:I would almost suggest dropping your PG/WL units down to 18 each to bump the Swordmasters up to 18 as well and get them command (seems a good opportunity for it this time around). DEFINITELY worth giving these guys Ironcurse Icon if you can afford it.

Just out of curiosity, why is that you feel a full Command for the Sword Masters here is a good idea? I see the point behind the Ironcurse Icon, though I have yet to face any War Machines yet. Would it be safe to assume I'll face at least one in a tournament? And in your experience, how effective are they?

Jin wrote:If you could scrounge up the points for a second Great Eagle, I don't think you'd be disappointed.

I had a chance to playtest the GE's this past weekend, but they didn't perform as well as I had hoped. First off, my Skaven opponent played a Storm Banner, which I was told meant that my Flyers couldn't fly the turn it was activated. (On a side note, I probably should've checked to see if they were able to Move, as opposed to Fly, which could've meant they may have been able to move their 2" or march 4", but that’s besides the point). The following turn, my GE's could fly, and they were able to charge a few single model units, killing them rather easily. So in the end, even without a turn of movement, they were still pretty effective at taking out the single model units, however, I do have a question about them disrupting units. In the BRB, it states that a unit is only disrupted if the attacking unit has at least 2 ranks of 5 or more models. How does a single GE disrupt a unit of, say, 30 Skaven Clanrats? Is it possible to disrupt a unit that size with one GE, or am I missing a piece of this puzzle here?

Thanks a lot for the feedback! Sorry for being MIA for so long.