Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Couple of quick questions!

1)

Unit of boyz+ KFF Big Mek are embarked in a transport
Transport takes penetrating hit from shooting attack
Transport explodes
Replace transport with a crater, take hits on all embarked models at either S3 or S4 open topped.
Take saves:

option 1) Units are being disembarked into a crater, which would grant a 4+ cover save, you can take a cover save from the wounds caused
option 2) Units are taking wounds caused as the result of a shooting attack, KFF grants you a 5+ cover save versus these wounds
option 3) Both of the above are true. Take the better of the 2 saves (4+)
option 4) You do not get a cover save versus these attacks as the cover wasn't there when the shot was fired (invalidates option1) and the wounds are versus an explosion not a shooting attack (invalidates option 2). Take 6+ tshirt save

2)

After saving whatever wounds above, you take a pinning test which is failed. Your now forcably disembarked boyz+mek are huddled in their crater

Unit is standing in cover:
Being pinned by enemy fire = gone to ground
If you have gone to ground, your cover save is increased by 1
You have a 3+ cover save versus subsequent attacks while pinned in the crater

As far as Im aware this is right. How about this:

Unit of Orks+Big Mek with KFF is standing in open ground.
Unit counts as being in 5+cover
Unit takes hits from sniper fire and fails pinning test
Being pinned by enemy fire = gone to ground
If you have gone to ground, your cover save is increased by 1
Unit now has 4+ cover save

Is this right?

Cheers!

Answer for Question #1. Page 67 of the rulebook: The unit take wounds. The surviving passengers are placed.

The unit isn't in cover because it's still inside the vehicle and take the wounds BEFORE the vehicle is removed and replaced with a crater.

Edit: Although I'm going to double check the Ork codex to see if that causes any strangeness...

Edit: And the Followup from the Ork codex is that half the time the Ramshackle rule replaces the normal explosion result, and none of the Ramshackle results create a crater.

You would get the KFF save against the explosion, but you would NOT get any other save - as Solkan noticed you do not get placed until after you resolve the explosion, so you are not in the crater to receive the save.

As noticed - you never get a crater with a trukk, but you do with a Battlewagon

solkan wrote:Answer for Question #1. Page 67 of the rulebook: The unit take wounds. The surviving passengers are placed.

The unit isn't in cover because it's still inside the vehicle and take the wounds BEFORE the vehicle is removed and replaced with a crater.

Edit: Although I'm going to double check the Ork codex to see if that causes any strangeness...

Edit: And the Followup from the Ork codex is that half the time the Ramshackle rule replaces the normal explosion result, and none of the Ramshackle results create a crater.

That makes sense to me: So that rules out the cover save from the crater. I was definitely of that opinion as well. Whats more hazy for me though is whether you get the coversave from the KFF or not. Those bloody things, whilst awesome, are the source of more rules confusion than anything else (replacing the Trukk since the ramming clarifications in the neew FAQ!)

Eeps - assuming you play "explosion" as a shooting style attack you get a coversave. This applies to the explodes-6 result on the vehicle chart when you're standing nearby as well.

If you dont play it as a shooting style attack you have no way to resolve wounds, so most people do.

I actually do not play it(Ramshackle) as a Shooting style attack; mainly because it has no AP at all.

To resolve it I resolve it the same way as getting hit by a normal CCW wielded by a model with the appropriate strength.

For a regular Vehicle Damage "6" result; I do however treat it as a shooting attack with Cover saves taken when appropriate(but never the crater's cover save since, as solkan pointed out, the unit takes their saves before getting into the crater).

I reckon thats case one more or less cleared up. Anyone have any input on case 2?

If you have a 5+ cover save and go to ground, you now have a 4+ cover save.

In case 2 I would say that the KFF's save would be modified because it is still a cover save and unless the KFF's rules state that it can not be modified.

To loosely quote one ‘receives +1 to your cover save throw.'

whats that loosely quoting? going to ground or the big mek?

GtG. The Big Mek KFF simply provides a flat cover save to non-vehicle units.

Makes sense, havn't found anything preventing you from taking a cover save while inside a vehicle via custom FF so I'd say the 5+ etc