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Hi All

hopefully aquick question here, if a squad shoots a vehicle (or a unit I suppose) and gets a destroyed result (wipe the unit out) can the said squad assault some else or is their assault phase forfeited?

If you shoot a non-vehicle unit and wipe it out, you cannot assault anything - you must assault what you shot at, but the unit doesnt exist any longer.

If you destroy a vehicle the same applies. The exception is that if it was a transport vehicle carrying a unit, you can now assault the unit that was carried by the wrecked vehicle. See the last entry on the vehicle damage results.

really? damn think I may have cheated then

I had a look in the BRB and couldn't find anything directly realting to what happens if the unit shot at no longer exists. Don't suppose you got a pg reference.

It doesnt have to directly reference it.

If you review the rules for assaulting it states you MUST declare an assault against the unit you shot at. If the unit no longer exists how can you declare an assault?

What you're missing is that there is no permission to assault anotehr unit - except in the case I outlined above.

Pg 33, Dissallowed Assaults, check the paragraph below the bullet points.

Ok thanks guys, will have a read when I get home.

Looks like owe someone an apology, oh well at least I lost anyway.

SpankHammer III wrote:Ok thanks guys, will have a read when I get home.

Looks like owe someone an apology, oh well at least I lost anyway.

I wouldn't worry about it anyways. Your opponent makes mistakes as well. We all do.

I think the RAW would not allow you to assault anything, but if you follow the way GW usually think I would permit it.

Always imagine yourself as a soldier.
You shoot at a vehicule or squad, so your concentration is focused on this vehicule/squad, so when the time come to assault you assault them, you were already trying to kill them, this is logical.

But once they are destroyed and that the treat is removed, I dont see a soldier taking time to watch the corpse until its time to move again. No they would put their focus on someone else. So in my book yes you could but it would most likely be the only exception.

I can see a few other logical way around this... Swooping hawks with Skyleap... they leave the table.. well then choose another target...

But as I said, thats my view and the RAW is not on my side I think.

Lazypete wrote:But once they are destroyed and that the treat is removed, I dont see a soldier taking time to watch the corpse until its time to move again. No they would put their focus on someone else.

The explanation from GW when they have explained this in the past is that the unit is focussed on destroying the original unit, and re-focussing once that unit is gone takes a certain amount of time.

The intent of the rule (as explained by GW when 5th edition was released) was to force units to generally only be able to affect one enemy unit per turn, to balance strong units' offensive capabilities. So whether you shoot the unit and then wipe them out in assault, or wipe them out from shooting and then can't assault anything makes no difference. You have had your unit for the turn.

It also tones down assault units mowing over multiple units. Its inline with removing sweeping advances.

Sweeping Advance is still there, and still mostly the same.

What has been removed is Consolidating into Combat(Thankfully).

Pete: your real-life scenario also assumes that in real life soldiers will move, then shoot, then run into melee; then wait for the enemy to do the same. 40k rules are an abstraction to what would really be happening: all the moving, shooting and charging would be so much closer together in real life, as would the moving on to the next set of actions, no the soldiers are not watching the corpses for a minute before moving again. more like they are shooting the enemy squad dead, then verifying that they are dead/incapacitated, then moving on to the next encounter.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Sweeping Advance is still there, and still mostly the same.

What has been removed is Consolidating into Combat(Thankfully).

Pete: your real-life scenario also assumes that in real life soldiers will move, then shoot, then run into melee; then wait for the enemy to do the same. 40k rules are an abstraction to what would really be happening: all the moving, shooting and charging would be so much closer together in real life, as would the moving on to the next set of actions, no the soldiers are not watching the corpses for a minute before moving again. more like they are shooting the enemy squad dead, then verifying that they are dead/incapacitated, then moving on to the next encounter.

I guess I was using the wrong wording. What I was refering too was when you wiped out a unit, you got to run a few d6 at another squad, and if you hit them you counted as charging.

Of course, if possible, yu can always multi assault. But that's the only way you can assault a unit you didn't shoot at, and you still do have to assault the unit you shot at.

spireland wrote:I guess I was using the wrong wording. What I was refering too was when you wiped out a unit, you got to run a few d6 at another squad, and if you hit them you counted as charging.

I figured you were just using the wrong term; i was only really correcting your intent with the correct term.

In other words i knew what you meant, and was just clarifying it for others. Your description is that of "Consolidating into a combat" which could also be used to re-contact a unit that falls back from your previous combat which basically gave you 2 chances to sweeping advance(which was crap).

I was at my FLGS and brought this up and there seemed to be a pretty even divide about whether it should be allowed or not.

arguments against were pretty much what you guys have pointed out

If you review the rules for assaulting it states you MUST declare an assault against the unit you shot at. If the unit no longer exists how can you declare an assault?

the arguments for used the same reasoning but with a different result, something along the lines of if the unit has been destroyed it no longer has an effect of the game its like it didn't exist, so can assault someone else.

I think in general I'll assume I can't but I might try my luck now again in my gaming group and see if people allow it.

Since this is a permissive ruleset the rules only allow for assaulting a unit in one of the following 3 ways:
1- shoot at the unit with weapons that allow you to assault afterward and then assault the unit's remaining figures. So if there are zero remaining units then you can only assault those zero units;
2- you may assault a unit that was in a transport that you shot at in the shooting phase and destroyed, or;
3- don't shoot at any unit and then you can assault any unit within your assault range.

These are the only ways to assault someone within the rules. Without citing some specific other rule a unit may not assault. So if someone wants to try something else ask them to show you where they get permission from the rules.

you forgot 4- shoot at the unit with weapons that allow you to assault afterward and then assault the unit's remaining figures while also assaulting another nearby unit.(Multi-assault)

SHIII - as was pointed out, they NEED to show you the rules that alllow you to do that. In other words this set of rules tells you what you *can* do.

You are told you *can* assault the unit you shot at. If you didnt shoot at any unit, you can assault any unit. No other options are given, so if you shoot as a unit and wipe it out you cannot assault.

I read all these posts and still cant see why I cant assault another unit after killing the original, please explain with page ref's

Simple Answer: Because the BRB says on page 33 that you can only assault the unit you shot at. Plain and simple, and right there in the book.

It's the same reason why my lasguns aren't S10 AP1 Large Blast, and Leman Russes aren't 1 point a model. Cause GW says so.

Formosa wrote:I read all these posts and still cant see why I cant assault another unit after killing the original, please explain with page ref's

As Chriss said. find a rule which says you CAN assault a unit than the on e you shot at, and you can.

Permissive ruleset.

Formosa wrote:I read all these posts and still cant see why I cant assault another unit after killing the original, please explain with page ref's

Page 33, 'Disallowed Assaults' last paragraph:
"In addition to the above, a unit that fired in the Shooting phase can only assault the unit that it shot at - it cannot assault a different unit to the one it previously shot at."