Iron Hands

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**vodo40k**

This is more of an observation but last-night I was flicking through the Vanilla marine 'dex and Started looking at the list of space marine chapters included in the list. The iron hands get one tiny mention, whereas the crimson fists, a second founding chapter, get a whole section as well as their own special character. (not to mention the black templars get a whole codex)
Now my real question is why do the Iron Hands, a first founding legion, pivotal in the horus heresy (in the way they got almost completely wiped out) get so little attention from GW? There exists next to no fluff about their current status in what could essentially be made into a very cool ad-mech style army. At the very least they deserve a special character like all the other loyalist legions. So dakka, what are your opinions on this?

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

I'm all for more SC's and nifty rules

**Pen≥Sword**

I found this a little strange too. I think they're the ONLY first founding chapter to get zlitch.

Though I suppose GW hasn't completely overlooked them, seeing as how they at least have their own modeling kit.

But I guess I never thought to much about since a friend of mine literally has half a chapter of the gear heads.

**Commander Endova**

I agree. This always bothered me.

This naive little part of me wants to believe that GW has bigger plans for this chapter. We don;t know as much about the Iron Hands as some of the others, other than the fact that they are ruthless, and the whole "the flesh is weak" thing. They're organized into clans, and sort of reject the unified chapter idea. They are also extremely close to the AdMech.

To me, this seems at least as divergent from Codex norms as the Dark Angels or the Blood Angels, who have their own army books. I feel like they haven't been given much attention because GW is keeping them on the back burner if they ever need another SM book, but that is, of course, unfounded and wild speculation.

**Mike Noble**

They already have like 5 marine codices, do they really need more?

I agree the Iron Hands need more fluff and rules though. I doubt GW will do the PDF codex like they used to for sub armies that didn't have them, like BA and Speed Freeks.

**SagesStone**

Just replace the DA one with an Iron Hands one? DA used to be unique and worth it, but all the newer marine codices after it took all the cool stuff until it's basically a weaker version of the vanilla dex. The only redeeming factors being the Ravenwing, Fancy Landspeeder and Jetbike.

**sniperjolly**

DA follow the Codex, and should be in the Codex. IH have their own rulebook, and should have their own book.

But then again BA are codex, so what do I know?

**MechaEmperor7000**

Iron hands is probably one of two chapters that really do deserve their own stand alone codex. The two Angels of Death are apparently organised as per codex astartes, whereas Iron Hands has so much possibility there. Especially since BA gets DC Dreads as troops. Troop Dreads makes so much more sense in the Iron Hands army, not to mention taking a Techmarine HQ that isnt a glass cannon.

At least the Salamanders and White Scars didnt suffer this fate. Pre-5th ed marine codex, I didnt even know they were official chapters, much less a first founding ones. The Black Templar Codex is a real puzzlement though. Not only were they not a first founding chapter, their parent chapter has been featured prominently in almost all editions of the SM codex.

**Manchu**

The CF were a first founding chapter back when GW still claimed the Ultramarines were subsequent founding. Them getting this attention is considered pretty wonderful by a fair few old timers.

But I do like the Iron Hands a lot.

I personally would like to see an Iron Hands/Iron Warriors dex.

**vodo40k**

I dont really think we need ANOTHER MEQ codex, I would just really like to see some more fluff and a special character with chapter tactics, like the salamanders, IF, white scars ect.

**Lexx**

vodo40k wrote:I dont really think we need ANOTHER MEQ codex, I would just really like to see some more fluff and a special character with chapter tactics, like the salamanders, IF, white scars ect.

I would agree with this a lot. But at the same time iron hands need more face time for being a first founding. I would rather see all the loyalist chapters and foundings rolled into one large codex with variant rules for the loyalist first foundings and all the loyalist space marine special characters together in one handy mega codex. Iron hands would be about the only space marine army I would buy if they had more unique models or units than the iron hands tactical squad conversion pack. One to do with their style. Secondly the fact that they dont follow the codex astartes much if at all. They have ten roughly chapter sized clans on their homeworld medusa that are independently functioning of each other. Techmarines are revered instead of shunned and their complex they've gained about bionic body part replacement is a fun twist. It even alludes that they fight competitively between clans. As trial through adversity and being able to function independently are strong themes for this chapter.

**undivided**

It's the same thing we get in the CSM 'dex. The Red Corsairs get far more attention than the Word Bearers. Exact same treatment as the Crimson Fists and the Iron Hands.

**BluntmanDC**

Lexx wrote:They have ten roughly chapter sized clans on their homeworld medusa that are independently functioning of each other.

each clan is similar to a battle company not chapter

**vodo40k**

I was thinking today about the IH special character and this is my idea:

Iron Father Moriat Haemotal

WS6 BS5 S4 T5 W4 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+/4++

Special Rules:
ATSKNF
IC
Combat Tactics
Eternal Warrior
Deep Strike
Chapter Tactics: If your army includes Haemotal all models in your army exchange the Combat Tactics rule for a 6+ invulnerable save, in addition all units equipped with Terminator Armour (including Haemotal, included in profile) gain 1+ Toughness.
Master of Technology: Haemotal has the Bolster Defenses and Blessing of the Omnissiah rules (see techmarines) and all techmarines (including himself) repair vehicles on a 2+.

Wargear:
Terminator Armour
Servo Arm
Iron Halo
Forge Blade: A master crafted power sword, which is "poisoned" 3+, rending and counts as melta bombs when assaulting a vehicle.
Star Blaster: A plasma pistol with the following profile: Range 12" Str7 Ap2 Assault 2
Iron Homer: All Terminator units deep striking within 6" of Haemotal (including when Haemotal himself deep strikes) only scatter 1d6.

Im not sure on point cost but i would say about 200pts.

Opinions?

**BluntmanDC**

i think an iron father special character would be a better that a captain, as they are truelly an iron hand defining unit

**Lexx**

BluntmanDC wrote:
Lexx wrote:They have ten roughly chapter sized clans on their homeworld medusa that are independently functioning of each other.

each clan is similar to a battle company not chapter

Thanks for the correction.

**1hadhq**

Manchu wrote:

But I do like the Iron Hands a lot.

I personally would like to see an Iron Hands/Iron Warriors dex.

Why those 2 in 1 dex?

A quad dex? Iron Hands , Mechanicum, Iron Warriors, dark mechanicum?

The Iron Hands had no different treatment when index astartes was around. Each Legion had its fluff.
Would like to see some of this return.

If a new player isn't paying attention, the Iron Hands are so hidden s/he may not know they exist just by reading the space marine codex.

**Manchu**

1hadhq wrote:A quad dex? Iron Hands , Mechanicum, Iron Warriors, dark mechanicum?

Yes, this exactly. A dex that further emphasized the "two sides of one coin" nature of these factions. I think it would be cool to have a rules/unit list that all could access and then have individual thematic rules per faction (either Chaos v. Imperium or even four separate themes) that could apply to an change those base rules/units. Wouldn't it be awesome to field IH along with Skitarrii or Iron Warriors with a (plastic) Chaos Warhound!

**vodo40k**

BluntmanDC wrote:i think an iron father special character would be a better that a captain, as they are truelly an iron hand defining unit

Sorted, I thought that made more sense than a captain after you said this.

**BluntmanDC**

1hadhq wrote:A quad dex? Iron Hands , Mechanicum, Iron Warriors, dark mechanicum?

that would be a pretty bad ass book, i would pay for it on the day of release

**Manchu**

Not preorder???

**BluntmanDC**

probably would

**vodo40k**

BluntmanDC wrote:
1hadhq wrote:A quad dex? Iron Hands , Mechanicum, Iron Warriors, dark mechanicum?

that would be a pretty bad ass book, i would pay for it on the day of release

I second that.

**sniperjolly**

BluntmanDC wrote:
Lexx wrote:They have ten roughly chapter sized clans on their homeworld medusa that are independently functioning of each other.

each clan is similar to a battle company not chapter

Well they are all self sufficiant, and have no limits placed upon them by the Codex, and because of Ferrus' philosophy of cutthroat competition=strength, there is every reason for each clan to outdo the others, and they all have their own seperate armouries and neophyte and recruting systems. It is probably closer to Company size than chapter, but they vary from millenia to millenia. Also, they fight each other. Like KILL each other, not just frendly cross-unit training exercises, but stealing peices of tech, choice recruits, and for a better position in the Clan Council.

So yeah, not codex, cooler than DA. I honestly woulden't complain if they got rolled into C:SM 6th ed, but a new book wouldn't be uncalled for either. They have long been on the table as the next MEQ book if they are to introduce a new chapter (and were slated for release in 4th ed, but BT beat them out by a nose)

I approve of a (Dark)Mechanicum(Marines) codex. Heck, even the IW section would work well if they ever get to building a Codex:Legions book. There simply isn't a really good way to run them as it stands.

**shrike**

vodo40k wrote:pivotal in the horus heresy (in the way they got almost completely wiped out)

yeah- pivotal, but don't forget- in nearly getting wiped out, they also nearly took RG and salamanders with them. In the Istvaan dropsite massacre, they refused to retreat, and so the RG and salamanders had to stay back with them, ending up with the loss of vulkan and what could have happened- the near-extinction of 3 whole legions and the triumph of horus. it was 6 vs 6 (legions). 6 vs 3...bye emperor. And that is why I detest Iron hands.

**sniperjolly**

Because the primarchs decided that they should put the most incompetent leader among them because he is the one who is least objective and has the most reason to act irrationally. That was a bad idea, Ferrus was the WRONG man for the job. Not even gonna bother defending my plastic men's patron, even if it is a little hard to order a reatreat when your best friend who murdered your family in cold blood and rebelled against your country for no good reason is standing in front of you. Darn, I just defended him. On the internet. With an unjust cause.

**Monster Rain**

Ferrus Manus was a badass. He wasn't going to back down from Fulgrim, who had wronged him badly (to put it lightly.) A lot of people made mistakes during the HH, and Manus was no exception. He paid for it.

You know what's worse than getting your entire legion killed? A Chuck Norris Space Marine thread with no pics.