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Hello community,
had a situation come up last weekend that we were unsure was legal.


Codex Chaos Space marine only.
Units: Kharn and unit of 5 Lesser Demons

Situation:

KHARN alone moving towards enemy moves within 2" of summoned lesser demon unit.
LEsser demons close gap and are in near base with Kharn by end of turn.

Next turn both charge keeping near each other.

By rule kharn is an IC with 2" of a Troop( of demons) can he join them?
We found o no exception to CodexCSM demons unlike Demons from the demon codex.

Thus we ruled he had joined the unit by rule.. (and procedded to lop two of thier heads off..!!!)

The real question is why did he take lesser demons in the first place. ;P

Yes Kharne Joining them is legal; However you would have to move the daemons, then move Kharne to within 2" of them, as soon as an IC moves to within 2" of a unit that IC joins that unit, and the unit is considered to have moved.

Alternately the IC can move(remaining more than 2" form a unit), and then the unit can move to within 2" and at the end of the movement phase the IC will join the unit.

Yep, as above.

They are also a cheap as chips scoring unit that is still handy in melee.

kharne w/ lesser daemons sounds like the best

This is legal.

However, I have to agree with the train of thought that in CSM, daemons are a horrible waste of points when compared to what they were in the last dex.

If Kharn joins the unit you all forget...any 1's Kharn rolls for attack hit friendly units......

Didn't forget, just don't care.

Blood for the Blood God!

I don't mind taking one unit of them. As said they are a dirt cheap troops choice. They fulfill the same role as Gretchin in my ork list. Dirt cheap unit that sits on an objective & goes to ground at the first sign of trouble. This allows the rest of the army to do their job without worry over the objective in your zone.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I don't mind taking one unit of them. As said they are a dirt cheap troops choice.

And as I recall they don't occupy FOC slots... Anyway, my CSM mate always seems to get good use out of them. It's extra help with objectives or tying up near-to-score enemy troops in CC.

LordWynne wrote:If Kharn joins the unit you all forget...any 1's Kharn rolls for attack hit friendly units......

Great point, the 5++ save also means all your 1's dont mean instantly dead models. Only problem is that they don't start on the field and thus can't provide shooting protection for kharn reliably.

So you attach Kharne to a unit in a rhino, drive up fast, summon Daemons off the rhino/kharne when you get close, then have him hop out, attach to them and assault in.

Mannahnin wrote:So you attach Kharne to a unit in a rhino, drive up fast, summon Daemons off the rhino/kharne when you get close, then have him hop out, attach to them and assault in.

Except you can't assault out of the rhino :(

You can if it didn't move first. Obviously I'm talking about driving up on turn 1 (possibly 2 as well, depending on distance from the enemy), then hopping out and attaching to daemons which come out of reserve on turn 2 or turn 3, prior to the Rhino moving again.

For example:
T1: Drive forward 12", pop smoke.
T2: Daemons appear, summon with the central model within 6" of the Rhino, which means that if you have 8-13 models in the squad, you have at least two partial rings surrounding that middle model, so the front edge of the furthest daemon is at ~9" forward from the Rhino, while the rearmost is ~5" from the Rhino. Kharne hops out, moves 6" forward and attaches to the Daemons. Daemons assault 6", with Kharne attached.

This gives a total Turn 2 move + charge distance of approximately 27", assuming your daemons show up. Not too bad.

It's the "assuming your daemons turn up" part that sucks.

They *never* turn up in the right place and time. Sigh.

You have to invest in 2-3 squads to make it reasonably reliable.

Spetulhu wrote:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I don't mind taking one unit of them. As said they are a dirt cheap troops choice.

And as I recall they don't occupy FOC slots... Anyway, my CSM mate always seems to get good use out of them. It's extra help with objectives or tying up near-to-score enemy troops in CC.

Sorry everyone semed to ignore you and this remark:

Lesser Daemons take up 0 slots, but they count as troops; same as Greater daemons take up 0 slots but count as HQs.

Lesser daemons can Hold objectives because they are troops, in fact you could technically(and if points allow) take 6 Small units of troops(laikly all with Icons of some sort) and 6 units of Min-sized Lesser daemons; you will then have 12 troops units to attempt Objective seizures with(and 12 easy KP fielded)

While it's probably not a bad idea to err on the side of caution, I think he already knows that.

Hence his comment that they are "extra help with objectives".

He probably brought up the fact that they don't take up Force Org slots in reference to Shas'O Dorian's comment that they're dirt cheap troops. Some people think a virtue of dirt cheap troops is that you can get your 2TR minimum while leaving as many points as possible for other units. Obviously LDs aren't good for that; but that's mostly a pre-5th ed mentality anyway.

I completely changed my thinking when 5th came out(which is also when I got back into the game after quitting about a year into 4th)so i think of troops... really the same as I always had; the core of your army, the cheaper i could make that core the better obviosly, but i always had 3-5 Troops choices/units(much, much more for guard).