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I wasn't sure if this should go here or in tactics. I'm putting together my IG battleforce and I was wondering what dakka thinks is the best idea for squad special weapons and heavy weapons teams. I was thinking of using meltas for the special weapons. I'm hesitant to use plasma guns because I don't like the risk that it takes to use them. For the heavy weapons teams I was thinking of doing 2 lascannons and an autocannon or vice versa.

for the HW's either Missile launchers, or autocannons imo

As the squads go, if you're taking Vets take melta

Lascannons! But thats just my, like, opinion man.

Also would an amoured or scout sentinel be a better choice,

Shuck wrote:Also would an amoured or scout sentinel be a better choice,

Magnetization helps... You can look for DIYs if you want.

In my experience, plasma guns are worth the risk. They are very good weapons and they can very easily kill Marines and other strong infantry. I usually run a vet squad with plasma guns in most of my lists. I would say build autocannons; they are good against heavy infantry and light to medium tanks.

Two meltas and a flamer is a good all-round config for a vet squad if you don't have an overall plan at this stage.

The melta's from bitz fit fine using the grenade launcher or flamer arms.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440339a&prodId=prod1400031

Do not mix weapons in squads, be they heavy or special.

You want to specialise your squads and make them really, really good at one job rather than 'OK' and a few. 3 x meltaguns makes a squad very, very good vs tanks. 3 x flamers/plasma guns makes a squad very, very good vs light/medium infantry and MCs respectively. A flamer, a plasma gun and a meltagun in the same squad gives it some inherent flexiblity, but no matter what target you shoot at some points are going to be wasted; you fire at a tank, the flamer/plasma is useless, you fire at Orks, the melta/plasma is useless.

The above is primarily true of Veterans. If your taking PIS and intend to give them heavy weapons, the ideal combinations are: flamer/mortar (if any heavy weapon at all), grenade launcher/autocannon (or missile launcher) and plasma gun/lascannon.

HWS follow the same mentality as the Vets. Either go 3 x mortar/autocannon/missile launcher/lascannon or don't take dedicated HWS. There is *some* overlap here. In that you could possibly mix a missile launcher with either autocannons or lascannons but generally speaking its not a great idea.

L. Wrex

There is another way to look at specialised squads. Yes, they are most effective at that one role but it also makes them easy to neutralise.

Lets say you have two anti-tank squads and two anti-infantry squads. A mech opponent can focus on destroying the anti-tank squads and ignore the anti-infantry squads till later.

Having units that are effective against both armour and infantry keeps every unit in your army effective and makes it more difficult to remove your effectiveness with focus fire.

Scott-S6 wrote:Two meltas and a flamer is a good all-round config for a vet squad if you don't have an overall plan at this stage.

The melta's from bitz fit fine using the grenade launcher or flamer arms.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440339a&prodId=prod1400031

That actually sounds pretty good to me. Thanks for the link too. For HWS I've already made a lascannon team so I was figuring I'd make one more of those and an autocannon team.

*Edit*
The metal seems like it would make the minis really unbalanced. Any tips on how to counteract that?

With the new 40k bases, for plastic minis just glue a penny or nickel inside the base. I had a balance problem with my standard bearer, but now my standard no longer falls over with the slightest breeze! Yay!

Shuck wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:Two meltas and a flamer is a good all-round config for a vet squad if you don't have an overall plan at this stage.

The melta's from bitz fit fine using the grenade launcher or flamer arms.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440339a&prodId=prod1400031

That actually sounds pretty good to me. Thanks for the link too. For HWS I've already made a lascannon team so I was figuring I'd make one more of those and an autocannon team.

*Edit*
The metal seems like it would make the minis really unbalanced. Any tips on how to counteract that?

Set them towards the back of the base and they balance well enough.



Being top-heavy is a bigger problem (stormboyz, IG standard bearers, etc)

I'd go x3 lascannons for the HWTs...That's basically all I use them for anyway, allthough I do see merit in autocannons for horde. But you can always just swap the weapons, so it doesn't really matter.

To counteract the balance, I usually put a US nickel under the base...But seeing as how GW doesn't even make non-slotta bases anymore, it gets to be tedious to cut out the slotta part for EVERY base :/

Samus_aran115 wrote:To counteract the balance, I usually put a US nickel under the base...But seeing as how GW doesn't even make non-slotta bases anymore, it gets to be tedious to cut out the slotta part for EVERY base :/

Is this a GW US thing? No shortage of non-slotta bases here.

I think it might be. The GW kits I've bought here in the UK have had lots of non-slot bases, but all the US bases are slotted.

Scott-S6 wrote: Is this a GW US thing? No shortage of non-slotta bases here.

I've never seen them. Even the bigger bases have the little random nubs on the bottom. I can understand the slots, but what's the point of the nubs?

I dunno. I only have like 10 non-slottas in my entire 2500 point CSM list. I don't get it. None of the models in my army have slots.

Even cadians have slots in them for some reason

It's a conspracy. I've heard you can cut coins in half, but that sounds like and EXTREME waste of time

As if the minis didn't cost enough... Now to glue money to them. To me it seems like a much easier thing to do would be to fill the bottom of the bases with something that would harden. I'm not sure what exactly you would use but it makes sense in my head. Also, 3 lascannon teams seems like it would be the best bet then.

It's not muc money....it's a penny. Use a Canadian penny if you have one or something.

A penny/other small coin is really the best thing you could use for balance. It's dense and heavy enough to counter the weight of the arm/other bit.

Shuck wrote:As if the minis didn't cost enough... Now to glue money to them. To me it seems like a much easier thing to do would be to fill the bottom of the bases with something that would harden. I'm not sure what exactly you would use but it makes sense in my head. Also, 3 lascannon teams seems like it would be the best bet then.

You can use epoxy and lead shot. (model boat ballast is best as it's very fine)

Costs more than using a penny though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Samus_aran115 wrote:I dunno. I only have like 10 non-slottas in my entire 2500 point CSM list. I don't get it. None of the models in my army have slots.

Wierd. Especially since the bases are made in China.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shuck wrote:I can understand the slots, but what's the point of the nubs?

The larger metal models have round pegs on their feet - you pierce the base inside the nub and stick the peg into it.

Scott-S6 wrote:There is another way to look at specialised squads. Yes, they are most effective at that one role but it also makes them easy to neutralise.

Lets say you have two anti-tank squads and two anti-infantry squads. A mech opponent can focus on destroying the anti-tank squads and ignore the anti-infantry squads till later.

Having units that are effective against both armour and infantry keeps every unit in your army effective and makes it more difficult to remove your effectiveness with focus fire.

This is quite true, if you are looking at an army like Space Marines which can't field many units.

Fortunately IG can field so many units, for so cheap, that they have the neccessary manpower to not only throw out 6-7 dediicated anti-tank squads, but retain the necessary points to invest in a significant number of anti-infantry units as well. Whilst its true that your opponent COULD focus down all those anti-tank squads, s/he's very, very unlikely to do that prior to some of those squads performing the job you bought them for.

L. Wrex

Shuck wrote:As if the minis didn't cost enough... Now to glue money to them. To me it seems like a much easier thing to do would be to fill the bottom of the bases with something that would harden. I'm not sure what exactly you would use but it makes sense in my head. Also, 3 lascannon teams seems like it would be the best bet then.

or you could buy some steel 1" washers in bulk for about a penny a piece.

pratell wrote:or you could buy some steel 1" washers in bulk for about a penny a piece.

That sounds like a good idea to me. They'd be cheap and heavier than pennies.

Also, you have an amazing icon.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:Fortunately IG can field so many units, for so cheap, that they have the neccessary manpower to not only throw out 6-7 dediicated anti-tank squads, but retain the necessary points to invest in a significant number of anti-infantry units as well. Whilst its true that your opponent COULD focus down all those anti-tank squads, s/he's very, very unlikely to do that prior to some of those squads performing the job you bought them for.

Even if you can field lots of units, the disadvantages of specialisation far outweigh the benefits.

Benefits:
Easier to bring more weapons to bear on a particular target type
Easier to run the army as each unit has a specialized role.
Drawbacks:
Forces you to engage fewer targets of a particular type
Makes the enemy's target priority much easier
Makes your army very predictable.
In some circumstances makes sections of your army much less effective (e.g. you have anti-tank squads but your opponent has no tanks or meltas or simply succeeds in keeping them away from you.

Duality is an important concept in list building - every component in your list should be a threat in as many circumstances as possible. This is why MM/HF speeders are so popular and why anti-tank squads are mounted in anti-infantry transports and vice-versa. It gives you the maximum range of options to respond and it makes you much harder to predict.

The only squads which should be specialised are suicide squads - e.g. the vets that get dumped in the enemy's deployment zone on T1 - or units mounted in a transport which is specialised in whatever they aren't. (because then that component of squad+transport has duality)