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So I've been tinkering around with an SM Gate army, and I'm including scout bikers with a locator beacon so that I have a mobile 6" bubble in which I can safely gate into.

The relevant part of the gate rule states this:

This power is used at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase. The Librarian... blah blah blah

The relevant part of the Locator beacon states this:

If a unit wishes to arrive on the battlefield via deep strike and chooses to do so within 6" of a model carrying a locator beacon, then it won't scatter

So, since it states that the power is used at the beginning of the Librarian's movement phase, that means that I could move my scout bikers, then teleport the Libby into the 6" bubble correct?

DakkaDakka wrote:

Does your response imply that there is an argument about whether Gate works with locator beacons?!?!?

DakkaDakka wrote:

I'd allow for lack of wanting to disprove it

DakkaDakka wrote:

The Librarian's Movement Phase is his controlling player's Movement Phase for one simple reason: There is no other movement phase for it to be.

But I'm beginning to suspect that there's a contingent who can't deal with the fact that you might have multiple things resolved in an arbitrary order "simultaneously" because they all happen "at the beginning of the X phase", and have chosen instead to believe that each model gets their own individual phases and turns.

Lord PoPo wrote:So, since it states that the power is used at the beginning of the Librarian's movement phase, that means that I could move my scout bikers, then teleport the Libby into the 6" bubble correct?

No, beginning of the movement phase in which the librarian gets to move.

also, the models are placed using the deep strike rules - they don't actually deep strike.

Agree with Scott-S6.

Librarian's movement phase = his player's movement phase. Individual models don't have their own phases.

Locator Beacons, sadly, do not work with Gate, because the Beacon's language states that it works for units "arriving on the table by Deep Strike", and a Gating unit is not arriving on the table. It was already on the table.

Also, not only is it not arriving on the table, but its not deep striking either. Its moving by a psykic power that uses the deep strike rules. Using deep strike rules =/= deep striking in this case.

Eh, IMO that's much more debateable. If you use the rules for a thing, then you use all the rules for that thing, no?

Certainly that part is much more debatable. Its like when something moved like jump infantry, but were not actually jump infantry so (many players played that they) couldn't deep strike. Many people don't attribute "Act like X" to be "Is X".

Although, some of the GW FAQ have been looking like they want "Act like X" to be read "Is X".

Seems to me that if GW wanted that to be the case, they should just say "Remove the unit from the table, and Deep Strike the unit". Instead they just told you to use the same rules to govern how GOI puts them back on the table. The way it reads implies to me that GOI is actually not Deep Striking.

I hear you.

I think the JI thing is very different, though, in that the units in question said they "move like Jump Infantry", not "use the rules for Jump Infantry". The latter wording would have implied all rules, whereas the actual wording limited it only to the movement rules.

Which I would compare to the wording of GoI "[...]immediately placed back together anywhere within 24" using the deep strike rules."

The rules that you use from deep strike are how they are placed back together.

Dracos wrote:Which I would compare to the wording of GoI "[...]immediately placed back together anywhere within 24" using the deep strike rules."

The rules that you use from deep strike are how they are placed back together.

You also can suffer a deep strike mishap with GOI.

And in that case, what do you do when you roll a '5' or '6'? Mishap table says the unit goes "...back in reserve..." but how can a unit that didn't deep strike in from reserve go back in reserve?

The simple answer is that the unit goes into reserve. If will then follow all the applicable rules for reserves.

So it should therefore follow all the rules for deep striking units, including the use of locator beacons or teleport homers (if in Terminator armor).

DakkaDakka wrote:

Sometimes you need to connect the dots, though.

IF you GoI a unit, and IF it mishaps, and IF you roll a 5 or 6, Time Wizard's suggested approach is the simplest, most intuitive, and most in keeping with the rules, IMO.

Mannahnin wrote:because the Beacon's language states that it works for units "arriving on the table by Deep Strike", and a Gating unit is not arriving on the table. It was already on the table.

Actually, GOI tells you to remove the unit from the table and then place them using the deep strike rules. So, in that regard, they are "arriving on the table".

I have always played that GoI works with beacons.

on the flip side, units using GoI can be shot at if the enemy has an Mystic accompanied Inquisitor.

The local 'Ard boyz TO allowed GoI to use Beacons.

Grey Templar wrote:I have always played that GoI works with beacons.

on the flip side, units using GoI can be shot at if the enemy has an Mystic accompanied Inquisitor.

The local 'Ard boyz TO allowed GoI to use Beacons.

This^
Me and my friends house rule it like this but we only Allow Tigiurus(sp?) to do it, Thus upping the points for it too work.

Imo, do it like Magic the Gathering.

If 37 things happen at the beginning of X phase,
controlling player picks the order in which they happen.


It's really that simple and how it was explained to me by the veteran gamer who taught me.

Also: We've always played all of our tournaments as GOI working with beacons. We had the problem of the mishap coming up and literally had the store nearly explode, so we made the call it works. No sense in them getting all of the negatives and none of the positives of deep striking.

The unit is, in fact, arriving on the table if you read the GOI rules... So what is the issue?

And as for the question as to whether it's deepstriking... It actually says that it is a "deep strike attempt" in the rules...

I've played an army like this before, and always used gate of infinity as the first thing in my movement phase, jumping to some scout biker goodness. Occasionally i have deep strike mishaped but it's never come up a 5 or 6, but i'd have played them going into reserves, or "taking a bit longer to traverse the gate than normal"

Well. If you can move the bikes and then teleport then that could lead to a very agresive shriek army that do not use land raiders.

Hide one assault squad with shriek, and use gate on the next one. Sweet deal! Or just shriek + 2 librarians (Space Marines are alloved 3 are they not?) That would be pure gold!

nope, just shrike and +1 librarian. 2 HQ on FOC

Now the previous allowed you up to 6 HQ's in 1 FOC

1 Captain, command sqaud, attached chaplain and attached librarian