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An idea I was thinking about (which has been created into it's own thread) got me to thinking about the idea behind this thread.

Most 40k players know about the ancient war between the Necrons and the Old Ones. They also know that most of the races in existance today where created by the Old Ones to combat the Necrons. These include Humans, the Eldar and the Krork (Orks). Now the codex indicates that the Orks where created specifically for war, they replenish their numbers quickly and easily, they have instinctual knowledge of fields required to wage war including mechanics, medicine and battle tactics. They are imposing specimens who only grow stronger the longer they fight and are always led by the most capable of their kind.

So what do you think the Orks where like back when they where still called Krorks, back when the Old Ones still roamed the galaxy. Could they have been organised and united? Could they have had advanced technology that wasen't looted from other races? could they actually have been disciplined and militarised? Personally it's hard for me to picture an ork army that's anything more then a undisciplined mob that yells WAAAGH!!! and charges forward. But think about if Orks once marched in ranks, had mass produced/standardised weaponrey, had commanding officers who didn't earn their rank by beating the snot out of their predicessor with a squig, that Orks where properly organised and didn't fight any and everything they could simply to fight.

I think it's an interesting idea.

See this was ment to discuss how the Orks would have acted during the time of the Old Ones, not if these traits still existed in modern Orks as it's fairly obvious that they don't. Pretty much the discussion is about if the Orks degenerated to their current state from a more advanced state or if they where always pretty much barbarians.

Everyone keeps saying that the Krork woulden't need their instinctual knowledge of things such as medicine and technology. I'm not sure where this is coming from beings as the Orks/Krorks where created with these traits so they would have still had them when the Old Ones where alive and most likely would still have used them. Just not in the same way they do now.

The Orks wern't always gene coded hmm? Page 7 of the Ork codex? ok let's look at page 7 of the Ork codex.

"They speak of a legendary caste of greenskins who created the Orks of today as a warrior race to protect their own."

"The their Ork and Gretchin servants were anything but intellectual, they had a strong survival instinct and an innate understanding of their own universe".

So page 7 of the Ork codex says that the Orks where created by another race (duh we all know that) and that they had an innate understanding of their universe. The fact that they still have that understand via their gene coding means that they have always had gene coding (they where created with it) and nothing on that page says anything about them "not always having it"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And if you're refering to this "Either way, the brainboyz took steps to preserve what they could of their knowledge be engineering it into the genetic structure of their slaves, thereby creating the ultimate survivor race".

This says nothing about the Brainboyz creating the Orks and then later deciding to add the gene coding. For all you know the Brainboyz could have known of their decline before they even made the Orks and so put the gene coding into the Orks when they first created them.

^Agreed.

But the codex does say that they wern't exactly the smartest gits even back then lol I think they where something like Saurus from WHFB. They where intelligent but all of their intelligence was guided towards war.

Nephil1m wrote:I'm surprised no mentioned it directly, but...

I think we're supposed to guess that the Old Ones = The Brain Boyz.

"They speak of a legendary caste of greenskins who created the Orks of today as a warrior race to protect their own."

"Either way, the brainboyz took steps to preserve what they could of their knowledge be engineering it into the genetic structure of their slaves, thereby creating the ultimate survivor race."

Add that to the forward plainness of the 'Cron codex saying the Old Ones created the K-Orks.

Or is this something we all acknowledge and accept and I'm just being the last, unsubtle, horse to cross the finish line?

Yeah I think you're that horse

Nothing was said about "planning their own demise". What I said was that they knew they where going to fall prior to creating the Krork which beings as the Old Ones created the younger races as a last ditch effort to protect themselves from the Necrons means that the Old Ones (who where masters of the arcane and undoubtidly knew what was happeneing be it from simple logic or divination) knew they where near the end of their existance and so created the Orks with gene coding.

And if what I said is so out of context then you should have no problem providing a direct quote saying when it was exactly that the Orks where created with their gene coding. If not (which I doubt you can) I will quote the entire page because it does not say when it was done. Though logically given the greater fluff of the Old Ones it makes sense that it would have been done when the Orks where created hence their "innate understanding of the universe" and the fact that the Old Ones would be preparing for their downfall. All you have to go off of to say that they didn't have the gene coding when they where first created is that the words "gene coding" or some variation of which are only present at the end of the page. Hardly proof that they wern't created with it in the first place.

And yet again nothing you said in anyway proves that the Orks didn't have genetic coding to begin with. It just tried to jump around what I have said and what common sense dictates given the greater fluff.

Also to think that a race like the Old Ones woulden't able to tell when their worlds where being over run, their forces destroyed and the end was near is foolish. They where the masters of the universe, they created most of the life that now exists. They could travel instantly across vast distances and mold matter to their will.

Thinking they woulden't be able to recognise their own downfall when it was inevitable and thinking they woulden't have created races as a last ditch effort (as the fluff says) and giving those races what they need to survive when they where created is thinking wrong.

You say the Orks wern't gene coded at the begining. Prove it, provide a cannon quote that says so because right now absolutly nothing suggests that the Orks wern't originally created (especially given the phrase "innate understanding of their universe") with gene coding.