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Made in us
Raging Ravener



Virginia

Here's my latest shot at a 2000pt Dark Eldar list. Let me know what you think.

Haemonculus w/ Liquefier
Haemonculus w/ Liquefier

5 Incubi, Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Incubi, Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Trueborn w/ 2 Dark Lances, Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons

5 Warriors w/ Blaster, Sybarite w/ Blast Pistol, Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors w/ Blaster, Sybarite w/ Blast Pistol, Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors w/ Blaster, Sybarite w/ Blast Pistol, Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors w/ Blaster, Sybarite w/ Blast Pistol, Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons
10 Wyches, 2 w/ Hydra Gauntlets, Hekatrix w/ Power Weapon, Raider
10 Wyches, 2 w/ Hydra Gauntlets, Hekatrix w/ Power Weapon, Raider

Ravager
Ravager
Razorwing w/ Flickerfield
------------------------------------
2000 on the dot.

The Haemonculi give their pain tokens to either the Incubi or Wyches, then hop in the Trueborn's (empty) Venom.


   
Made in se
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer





Why dont take wracks instead of wyches ? much better objecrive holders and takers.

Dark Eldar Tournament Record 2011

W-D-L
12-3-4 
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener



Virginia

The Wyches are there for offense. If I start them with the Haemonculi's pain tokens they're almost as tough against shooting, and tougher in close combat.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm not sure why you would deny your Trueborns mobility, as they need some way to get their dark lances into position.

Since the haemonculi are essentially going to be deserted kill points, I see no point in giving them liquefiers as they will most likely be sniped.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/12 23:37:10


 
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






I'd drop the Razorwing and get a third Ravager and buy all the Ravagers flickerfields. Take agonisers instead of power weapons for the hekatrixes, and Wracks with liquifiers instead of Warriors. Those Sybarite blast pistols are overpriced. Also drop a Wych from each squad so the Haemonculi can get both squads FNP right away and join for the ride. Take four blasters for the Trueborn instead of those lances, and drop one squad of Incubi and get a second four blaster Trueborn team. You'd then end up somewhere around 11 dark lances, 8 blasters, 14 splinter cannons, 6 liquifier guns and three reasonably good close combat squads.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener



Virginia

@Dave: Hopefully I can find ONE good spot for a sniper squad on the board.

The Haemonculi aren't going to be deserted KPs. They're jumping in the Trueborn Venom, as I said. I expect the opponent to leave them alone, given the other threats I'm presenting, so they have a shot at roasting a squad.

@ Therion: Okay, but right now I have 12 Dark Lances, 4 Blasters, 4 Blast Pistols, 14 Splinter Cannons, 2 Liquefiers, 4 monoscythe missiles and four reasonably good close combat squads.

Also, in the list you suggest all 8 blasters are in 2 units, so I can shoot at, at best, 5 vehicles per turn. If my opponent downs those venoms, I've lost 40% of my AT. In my list I can shoot at 8 tanks per turn, and my opponent has to kill 4 venoms to stop the Blasters/Pistols.

I don't need flickerfields on the Ravagers because they'll be screened by other vehicles the whole game. I have 7 Venoms and 2 Raiders. I gave the Razorwing a flickerfield because I wanted the option of splitting it off, and because I'm not sure if it'll be low enough to screen with other vehicles (or if it'll be like the Valkyrie).

The Haemonculi ARE giving the Wyches their pain tokens straight off. They'll start with the Wyches on the ground around near the Wyches' Raiders and the empty Venom. Turn 1 the Wyches will hop in the Raiders and the Haemonculi (sans tokens) will hop in the Venom.

5 Wracks with a liquefier are not a legitimate threat to anything and, most importantly, cannot hurt a vehicle. Only 3 units in my list cannot touch vehicles (the two Incubi units and the combined Haemonculi), and only two units cannot realistically hurt infantry (the 2 Ravagers). 8 units can do both.

Am I missing something?

   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






Therion: Okay, but right now I have 12 Dark Lances, 4 Blasters, 4 Blast Pistols, 14 Splinter Cannons, 2 Liquefiers, 4 monoscythe missiles and four reasonably good close combat squads.

Yes, I can count. Hence, I suggested an improvement.

Also, in the list you suggest all 8 blasters are in 2 units, so I can shoot at, at best, 5 vehicles per turn. If my opponent downs those venoms, I've lost 40% of my AT. In my list I can shoot at 8 tanks per turn, and my opponent has to kill 4 venoms to stop the Blasters/Pistols.

Are you assuming you can actually cause some damage on more than five vehicles per turn? Losing AT power if anybody with a gun even glances at your vehicles is a problem every Dark Eldar list has.

I don't need flickerfields on the Ravagers because they'll be screened by other vehicles the whole game.

Unless you're planning a pretty huge car park over there, the first vehicle will simply be shot down and then your cover is blown. The flickerfield isn't prohibitively expensive for Ravagers considering it allows you more freedom of movement.

The Haemonculi ARE giving the Wyches their pain tokens straight off. They'll start with the Wyches on the ground around near the Wyches' Raiders and the empty Venom. Turn 1 the Wyches will hop in the Raiders and the Haemonculi (sans tokens) will hop in the Venom.

Excellent, except you won't go first every game and I really doubt you're deploying anything on the table when you get second turn against a wide variety of armies.

5 Wracks with a liquefier are not a legitimate threat to anything and, most importantly, cannot hurt a vehicle. Only 3 units in my list cannot touch vehicles

The duality of purpose is the reason most people would mount their Wracks in Raiders. They're a more legitimate threat to units overall in this game than five Warriors with a blaster are.

Am I missing something?

Plenty it seems, but that's what we're here for.

Since noone said it yet, on a power scale ladder, at 2K pts what we have here, even with my changes to it, we have a pretty mediocre army. The fragility of it isn't compensated enough on the firepower department. Mobility is a bit too expensive it seems and the fact that none of the assault squads can do anything meaningful against enemy transports is a massive problem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/13 00:36:06


 
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener



Virginia

I hate doing the line-by line, but I feel like I have to respond to some of this.

Yes, I can count. Hence, I suggested an improvement.

The "improvement" you suggested has 1 fewer Dark Lance. It exchanges 4 Blast Pistols for Blasters, undeniably better, but it also concentrates those Blasters into 2 squads instead of 4. As I said, that makes my AT very vulnerable. You've pointed out that DE vehicles die like flies. I'd rather that my opponent have to kill 4 flies to stop my Blasters than 2. Also, if I have to start in Reserve, I have a better chance of getting some of my AT when I need it (early).

Your "improvement" also exchanges 4 Monoscythe missiles for 4 liquefiers. I don't think that's a good trade, for two reasons. (1) It forces me to consolidate my AT. (2) It trades long-range firepower for short-range. As you said, this army is ridiculously fragile. If my opponent has a bunch of Lootas or something in the backfield, I can't rely on flamers to kill them.

Finally, your "improvement" removes a close combat squad.

I guess I'm just confused about where the improvement is.

Are you assuming you can actually cause some damage on more than five vehicles per turn? Losing AT power if anybody with a gun even glances at your vehicles is a problem every Dark Eldar list has.

Ah, but my list has less of a problem than yours (or my list with your suggestions). If my opponent glances (and shakes, stuns, or weapon destroys) my Venoms, I don't lose AT firepower. Even if he destroys them, I can still run the Warriors on foot. As I mentioned before, my opponent also has to shoot more vehicles to stop me.

Unless you're planning a pretty huge car park over there, the first vehicle will simply be shot down and then your cover is blown. The flickerfield isn't prohibitively expensive for Ravagers considering it allows you more freedom of movement.

It would only be 20 points, you're right. The thing is, I don't know where to cut those points. I'll think about it.

The Haemonculi ARE giving the Wyches their pain tokens straight off. They'll start with the Wyches on the ground around near the Wyches' Raiders and the empty Venom. Turn 1 the Wyches will hop in the Raiders and the Haemonculi (sans tokens) will hop in the Venom.


Excellent, except you won't go first every game and I really doubt you're deploying anything on the table when you get second turn against a wide variety of armies.

If I need to go all-reserves, I guess the Wyches won't start with a Pain Token. I don't feel great about this, but there are three problems with dropping a Wych and throwing a Haemonculus in instead. (1) Haemonculi can't fleet. I don't want him slowing them down. (2) As you mentioned, Wyches don't hit that hard. Dropping to 9 Wyches means I lose a special weapon, which costs me 3-8 attacks on the charge (the Haemonculus has 4 one the charge, but he's I4 and doesn't have grenades). (3) It means I can't run the Haemonculi in the Trueborn's Venom (which I might switch out for a Raider...). Remember how liquefiers were so awesome you wanted 6 of them? Well, I'd like to get some use out of the ones I have.

The duality of purpose is the reason most people would mount their Wracks in Raiders. They're a more legitimate threat to units overall in this game than five Warriors with a blaster are.

Five Warriors with a Blaster and Blast Pistol, and a Venom. Here's the thing. I already have short-range anti-infantry (Wyches and Haemonculi), and I already have long-range anti-tank (Raiders, Ravagers, Razorwing, Trueborn). The Wracks would be more of the same, but the Warriors give me long-range anti-infantry and short-range anti-tank.

Since noone said it yet, on a power scale ladder, at 2K pts what we have here, even with my changes to it, we have a pretty mediocre army. The fragility of it isn't compensated enough on the firepower department. Mobility is a bit too expensive it seems and the fact that none of the assault squads can do anything meaningful against enemy transports is a massive problem.

You're right: this is not a perfect list. However, I haven't seen too many DE lists that look much better. The only ones that look significantly better are the ones that use Beastmasters, and frankly I think people are misinterpreting how Power from Pain works with them, which makes a huge difference. Out of curiosity, do you have a 2k DE list you think is up to snuff?
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut



New Zealand

Ravagers are best to take Night Shields rather than Flickfields, but only if there are a decent number of Raiders hulls (which ideally should have Flickerfields). Unless you are in some very strange situation where everything on the table is in a straight line, the 1 screening Raider should be plenty. With Flickerfields the Raiders can be a pain to take down, and unless your opponent has a second long ranged anti tank unit directly behind the first one then they probably need to take out more than 1 Raider to remove cover from the Ravager.

I agree you are a bit light on anti tank, but without obvious access to melta (outside of Heat Lances which is quasi melta) Eldar/Dark Eldar are always going to struggle a bit as GW really seem to overvalue Lance weapons. The Blast Pistol on the Warriors is expensive, but its the only way you can make the unit into a reasonable anti tank threat. Aside from maybe changing the Trueborn around (4 Blaster config probably, I don't see the point in the 3 meatshield guys in the Dark Lance config you are using) you aren't going to get much more anti tank into the list. You could change some Warrior squads around to take Dark Lances and add more Dark Lance Raiders, but that won't really make much difference (less shots, more range). I would however suggest you take some Haywire Grenades somewhere in your list in case you run into some vehicles which are immune to Lance weapons (Monoliths, Blessed Hull Land Raiders).

You will definitely run into issues with the Wyches starting outside of their Raiders. In any case the Venom can only transport 5 so the Haemonculi won't fit anywhere atm. I would suggest you drop 1 of the Wyches so they can start in the transport, when they jump out to assault leave the Haemonculus in the Raider and just run him around flaming things.

The list does need a bit of work though, at the moment you have no obvious units which can actually hold objectives for you, Wyches have to get in close and the 5 man Warrior units are too fragile to rely on. I would change things around so that you either have some 10 man Warrior units or add some Wracks to the list.
   
 
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