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Trying to determine if I was in the wrong, or if I was merely facing an extremely pedantic opponent.

Sanguinary guard member with chapter banner: The citadel miniature is physically only molded with an angelus boltgun arm to carry the banner. Before the battle I informed my opponent that the banner carrier had an infernus pistol. After looking at the model he claimed that wasn't allowed because it didn't follow wysiwyg and that I should have customized the model if having an infernus pistol was my intention, furthermore, he said for fluff purposes it wasn't allowed as an angelus boltgun is wrist mounter (therefore keeping the hand free to carry the banner) whereas an infernus pistol is held in the hand (despite the fact there is nothing in the codex that says a standard bearer can't exchange other wargear).

Granted, I kind of see the point but realistically the gun arm is hidden behind the chapter banner.You really need to seek out the gun itself and I feel the banner differentiates the model enough from the unit that it's easy to indicate he is different to the rest of the unit.

Wanted to get a mass opinion for future battles/tournaments. Would wysiwyg trump the codex?

The codex says any model may carry the banner and any model may swap their boltgun for a pistol. Ruleswise you are fine.

He has you on WYSIWYG. Unless you swap all Angelus Boltguns in your army for Infernus Pistols, you should model them in some way with Pistols. Having said that, I think if you point out *before play starts* that the model with the banner also has the pistol, you might be OK.

Bottom line, tournament play is conducted using the tourney rules. If the tourney rules are WYSIWYG, then you should be strict on WYSIWYG as far as options are concerned. Maybe put a holstered pistol on his belt?

Homer

WYSWIG applies to characters.

"Character models in particular tend to have a lot of options as to what weapons and wargear they can use - given in the army list of their Codex. The rules is that such equipment must be visually represented on the model so your opponents can clearly see what they are facing."

Appreciate it.

Yeah, I can definitely see both ways. My take on WYSIWYG is that as intended it is designed to make sure there is no confusion/subterfuge in people removing certain models from the table and/or confusing their opponent with what weapons are left in a unit.

Personally, I feel the standard bearer is such an obvious unit that telling my opponent should be enough... but adding a holstered pistol is a really good idea.

Thanks again!

Metal ork warboss comes with a Kombiskorcha and attack squig. Obviously he is 'a warboss' but just because GW makes the model with a specific loadout of equipment doesn't mean I can 'say' he is equipped however I want. If I tried to say he had a Kombi-rokkit and a PK, then I would be in the wrong.

GW makes nice banner models. The Waaagh banner nob is a great model... but he is not equipped with a PK or a Kombiskorcha... so I either run him without the equipment or I must convert the model.

Just because you CAN take a weapon option doesn't mean WYSIWYG doesn't apply anymore if it is being enforced at an event.

forkbanger wrote:WYSWIG applies to characters.

"Character models in particular tend to have a lot of options as to what weapons and wargear they can use - given in the army list of their Codex. The rules is that such equipment must be visually represented on the model so your opponents can clearly see what they are facing."

So it doesn't apply to units? Theoretically you could say a whole unit of marines have power weapons even if they have chainswords?

(Sorry for the confusion I just got back into 5th ED after a 12 year hiatus and I last played in 2nd ed)

Sanguinary Guards actually got wristmounted pistols, you get a plasma and a infernus pistol in the box that are both mounted as the Angelus Bolter so there is no "fluff conflict".
So you can easily change the Angelus Bolter into a Infernus Pistol with som cutting and swaping, to avoid this issue.

In strict rules terms the ONLY things that have to be WYSWYG are:

Characters (special, upgrade, independent, etc)
The Entire Eldar Codex (because the codex has a rule stating so)

In a tournament they can then, as with any other rule, change this to require *everything* to be WYSIWYG.

Those are the two rules options. If you werent in a tournament then I simply wouldnt play that person if they were being that pedantic. Its on the level of someone trying to say that wood elves cannot shoot their bows as they dont have stringed bows on the models. It's asinine and beyond what I would deem acceptable.

In a tournament it is up to the TO. IF they are being strict on their houserule wysiwyg, then you are out of luck.

personly, unless it was a tourney with strict WYSIWYG rules,
the opponent was being, in nice terms, a jerk.

I feel as long as the model IS distinguishable it's fine, especially in casual games.

Being young with no job, I do the best I an with WYSIWYG, but that opponent was being a jerk.

Also WYSIWYG, does only apply to charcters, or special weapons that are easily identified on the model
Examples would include rocket launcher, mutli melta etc.

Strictly speaking it's only for character wargear.

That said, it's usually applied to specialists and squad leaders.

We use WYSIWYG for our tourneys and practice play (most the time) that way we can make sure our modeling and conversions are on the up and up

if he's got a melta I want to see a Melta ... not a bolt gun ...

Were you playing in a tournament that enforced WYSIWYG? Did you fail to make it clear that the model actually had different wargear, showing the opponent your list?

If you can answer 'no' to both of these questions, then your opponent was a knobhead. You get that sometimes.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Were you playing in a tournament that enforced WYSIWYG? Did you fail to make it clear that the model actually had different wargear, showing the opponent your list?

If you can answer 'no' to both of these questions, then your opponent was a knobhead. You get that sometimes.

Nope, no tournament... just a local casual game at my local hobby store.

Honestly, it took me aback a little because he said to me "Do the guard have any special gear?" to which I responded "Two infernus pistols the one with it in his hand and the standard bearer".

Funny thing is the way the model is posed you need to pick up the model and look between the wing and the banner to even see the gun arm.