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I'm planning to play a 1500pt game against an IG player this week for the first time.

He's brining a couple Chimeras, a Basalisk, two or three Leman Russ, and three Valkyries (with multiple TL LCs). He puts his troop minimum in the Chimeras.

This is the one army I've never had a chance to play, and I've heard from other players that this army is pretty wicked.

Any thoughts on what a SM should bring to counter this?

Las cannons, meltas, missle launchers, melta bombs, krak grenades, razorbacks, devastator squads, tac marines with combat squads, melta attack bikes, bike squads with 2 melta guns and multi-melta, landspeeders with both multi-melta upgrades, captain with combi-melta and his command squad all with meltas, sternguard with combi-meltas, predator with all lascannons, landraider with multi-melta, vindicator, sniper scouts with missile launcher and camo cloaks, legion of the damned with multimelta and melta upgrades, thunderhammer storm shield terminators, terminators with cyclone missile launcher and chainfists, librarian with curse of the machine spirit, Vulcan so he can make all of your meltas twin linked.

Other than that, you have nothing to deal with tanks.

Helpful!

I don't have the IG codex to reference, but I understand that the Valkyries can be hard to shoot and that some units are better at taking them down. Not real sure what those units/weapons are.

Guys that have been tabled numerous times by the IG player blame the Valkyries primarily, the Basilisk secondary.

And they've got crap for tips too.

Are you asking me for a list to beat it? TBH, that's hard without his exact list. The rounds that the Valks turbo boost, ignore them. Bikes would help a fair amount against him. Combat squad them 2 meltas in one squad, multi in other. Tubo boost turn 1, turn 2 melta up his russ squads, his basilisk. Worry about the chimera vets later (I assume that's his troop choice), unless they have something to devastate your army (probably not given the list). Tanks are hard to "wound," but have 1 "wound." Are the valks out flanking?

What models do you have available, hollybibble?

In general, you need a lot of high-volume, medium strength shooting like autocannons and missiles to threaten his chimeras & artillery at range. Predators, dreads and typhoon speeders are good places to get these weapons packed in. Also you want some fast-moving multimeltas (on speeders or attack bikes) to close with his heavy tanks, and some tac marines in rhinos or razorbacks to hold objectives.

Avoid leaving anything in the open without a transport (except maybe some scouts) because his AP3 blast weapons will eat them alive. I'd also avoid a land raider or terminators, because the vendettas (with 3 lascannons each) will not allow them to cross the board alive. Also avoid whirlwinds, vindicators or thunderfire cannons--vendettas won't let them shoot and will have them knocked out in a couple of volleys.

Also you might want a unit of scouts to screen your own units against the turn 1 demo charge trick (If the guard player goes first, a unit of vets inside a vendetta uses the scout move to close within 12" of your tanks, then on turn 1 they fly up, disembark, and lob a demo charge into your vehicles). Scouts infiltrated in cover in front of your firebase in the right spot will prevent the vendetta getting close enough to use the demo charge.

He doesn't hold anything in reserves. Everything is placed in the backfield and he hangs back, popping shots from all his armor. Some players have told me he rarely unloads his troops choices out of the Chimeras.

It's all tanks and those Valkyries with LCs. I think he only has two units on the board without an AV.

Avoiding a Land Raider seems smart, but how about a termie squad with a Cyclone?

I've been thinking about deep striking everything...

Termie squad with a cyclone = 200+ points for 2 missile shots

Landspeeder typhoon = 90 points for 2 missile shots, and moves twice as fast, and also packs a heavy bolter

The vehicles--especially speeders, preds, razorbacks and dreads--are just waaaay more points-efficient at packing in massed firepower throughout the SM list.

All-deepstriking armies can cripple a mechanized guard force on the drop if they pack enough meltaguns. Podding sternguard with massed combi-meltas, podding tac squads with melta, podding dreads with multi-melta, deepstriking speeders with multimeltas, all can be pretty effective at taking out tanks before he has a chance to shoot. Terminators are a bit expensive for deepstriking, but they do get their 2+ save against the russ battlecannon and basilisk earthshaker cannons. And once they get in among the tanks with their powerfists, the tanks either have to drive away (and not shoot) or die.

a ten man terminator squad with 2 Clyclone missile launchers will pump out 4 Krak missiles a turn that can't be stunned or shaken and gets a 2+ save vs most of his units and can lose 8 guys before it loses missiles.

take one of those and combat squad them. you will then have 2 squads that can fire at 22 different targets.

then you can take some Typhoons. 3-4. stay in cover and pour fire on his Valks, they will usually only get cover by turbo-boosting. a 4+ cover only works half the time. just keep shooting at them untill they go down.

once they are gone you can send your speeders to kill those basilisks, AV10 opentopped dies to Krak really easily.

Outflanking Scout squads with a PF can assault his Basilisks too.

for Leman Russ tanks you can flank them with Typhoons or assault with those scouts.

Hmm, some storm shield and thunder hammer Termies might also be nice. You get a 3++ against his heavy weaponary (seeing that he barely runs any infantry) and you can totaly wreck him in CC.
Other than that, maybe a couple of Legion of the Damned soldiers with meltas or sternguard with tons of meltas and multimeltas might do the trick.
I'd deep strike them all so that his ordonance could just hit his own units > + you get to fire the turn you land which gives you the chance to destroy lots of armour befor he can react.
FFE

Looks similar to a list I faced last weekend,
I was using Shrike just so I could infiltrate the 6 man assault terminator squad.

The rest of my army was that good ole cheap SM shooty

2x2 LS Tornado
2x Pred auto/hb
1x Razor
1xRazor las/.plas
2 10man tac mg/msl/pf

I think that's it or close enough

Great tips, thanks! The four speeders I own are still unassembled, but I can proxy in a couple of storms.

How about bikes with meltas? Turbo boost a full bike squad with a captain on a bike with a PF?

I don't know, I'm looking at deep striking as my best option. But then my lone DP will be out there on turn one, and then I have to hope the rest can come in very soon afterwards.

Bikes with Melta weapons are very deadly to IG tanks.

i wouldn't reccomend a Captain on a bike. He is really only worth it if you want to take bikes as troops. just give the Bike sergeant a PF so they can assault tanks after shooting them if they happen to survive.

Chimera have side armor 10.

When chimera explode it almost always kills enough for a morale test, which runs the risk of his guardsmen running off the board if they hug their own table edge and fail their check.

What is his troops?

take a squad of scout bikers with melta, if you get to deploy first, you will probably get first turn, scout move turbo them, then first turn assault his front wall of tanks.

automatic hits, melta on rear armor, you will evaporate half of them before his first turn.

Twin Autocannon Dreads are awesome against light (AV12 or less) tanks. They each put out 4 twin-linked shots, meaning you should get 1-2 damage results versus armor 12. You don't need to destroy it to be effective, merely reduce the fire output until your other units can close.

Don't try to outshoot IG, as very few armies can.

Rhino squads are recommended. Only take poded troops if you are taking 5+ pods. IG have a lot of melta and plasma hiding in their transports (though maybe not this guy). The key is to overload their capacity to react.

Threats should be:
1. Vendetta
2. Chimeras of Vets
3. Everything else

I've got my list and headed to play right now. I'll post a battle report tomorrow.

More fun that effective, I'm guessing...

Tactical 170
Multi-melta
Meltagun
Tactical
Multi-melta
Meltagun
Ironclad Dreadnought 135
HK Missle
HK Missle
Ironclad Dreadnought 135
HK Missle
HK Missle
Terminators 400
Cyclone ML
Cyclone ML
Land Speeder 50
Multi-melta
Multi-melta
Drop Pod
Drop Pod
Drop Pod
Locator Beacon
Drop Pod
Locator Beacon
Librarian 100
Terminator Armor Machine Curse, The Gates of Infinity
Storm Shield free
1500

That's what I'm doing, gang. Deep strike everything! Should be fun, even if I get crushed...

Just a friendly reminder, don't post point values of individual upgrades, as that is against copyright.

i'm an ig player. if he is useing basilisks, the biggest threat is anything that can outflank on them. I run a squadron of three bassis at 2000 pts or more. usualy will guard them with a minimum of a pcs, and two basic squads. so that out flankers have to go through them first.

if you cant get the basilisk early, it will eventualy kill all your troop choices. those are my primary targets in most gomes, kill points or objective based games. so, watch out for those.

Thanks again to everyone who commented. We played last night and it was a really fun game. First time playing against IG and first time against this guy in our club. He was a great player to go up against.

I lost. But not entirely because the lists were unbalanced.

He had some of the best rolling he's ever had, missing probably less than 25% of his attack rolls to hit. I, on the otherhand, had some of my worst rolling ever. Only one of my four HK missle hit, as an example.

The ironclad dreadnoughts were very effective and the terminators were resilient against his shots. My librarian's machine curse hit a few times as well, stopping some guns from firing. The speeder was ignored and that allowed the MM to run free until the last turn.

I was able to ground or destroy all three valkyries and immobilized a couple of his tanks. Sadly, more should have blown up, but I just couldn't get the damage rolls, even when I was lucky enough to hit.

The worst part was my two tactical DPs that came out on the first turn. They were completely wiped out by the end of the turn, except for my two lone MM units. On the drop, both meltas in the unit missed, even though they were both within 6" of a major target. BAD START! And the game went like that.

The dice hated me.

The two tactical DPs just weren't effective and I should've done something else with my troop choices. Maybe in Rhinos instead and have the two IC dread DPs come out so that four units are on the table first turn?

I was pretty much cleaned off the table by turn 5, but he was banged up good even with my terrible rolling... and his killer rolling.

The two IG command squads hurt. He had a 30 point upgrade that gave him orbital bombardment from two guys... EVERY TURN. That was depressing. Tellion in a sniper squad to take them out maybe?

Tons of fun. I would've done better with a different deployment of my troop choices and some good rolls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's the IG killer list...

SM Captain with a Power Fist
Tellion
Scout Snipers with ML
Razorback with TLLC (Scouts and Tellion)
Scout Snipers with ML
Razorback with TLLC (Scouts and HQ)
Land Speeder MM/MM
Land Speeder MM/MM
Ironclad Dreadnought with 2 HK missiles
Drop Pod with Missile Launcher
Ironclad Dreadnought with 2 HK missiles
Drop Pod with Missile Launcher
Vindicator with HK missile and Storm Bolter
Vindicator with HK missile and Storm Bolter
Predator with TLLC turret , LC Sponsons and a HK missile

Done and done. All armor, no exposed troops. Death!!

when i play the SM, or any army for that matter, my blast templates (lemran russ battle tanks, demolishers, basilisks) try and take out troop choices. especialy tactical squads, they can chew up IG troops.

I dont think drop pods are an issue. just maybe more troop choices. an extra tactical squad in a drop pod to come in later for you might be a good idea. all up to you though.

Don't try to outshoot them. You'll give him a nice warm feeling inside if you do that. Either stock up on transports (Lots of them) or use cover to you're advantage. You want to get down the board as fast as possible and get in CC. I'd watch out for his blobbed squads if he has any. If they do use multiple units to beat them in CC. Don't take any vehicles unless you can field a good 5 or 6. If you do then all those heavy guns will be coming down on them. If you were to say take a land raider with a standard unit you might be able to make an effective distraction. Charging it towards his lines will divert his guns from your infantry to buy them time to get close. Remember, a few hundred points won't be missed if it allows you to win. No victory is without sacrifice.

a land raider will get your troops there to get them into cc quickly and rather most likely, intact. Myself, if i see a land raider, i basicly leave it alone until other armour/troops choices have been dealt with. even with the best guns IG has (demolisher/earthshaker cannons/lascannons), we ignore the landraider itself, but, not the contents. becareful when you unload some terminators out of the landraider. make sure you are able to assault. once, an opponent opened up the landraider, let out his terminators (6 of them), but, tried to assault. to bad he was 8 inches away from my blob squad of 30 w/ 3 melta and commissar. FRFSRF did the 6 termies in.

tactical lascannon/melta w/ lc razorbacks
dreads tllc, missile launcher
pred tllc, lc sponsons
speeders melta , heavy bolter

martin74 wrote: we ignore the landraider itself, but, not the contents.

I'm going to disagree with that. i want his LR contents walking as fast as possible. i don't ignore LRs. i try to hit them as fast and hard as possible.

Hi,
I am Guardsmen player myself and my most common opponents are vanilla space marines, so I could give you some advice I believe.

First, what gives me nice warm feeling inside is the lack in numbers. If you have just a few big expensive targets, you're not going to win. You need numbers against guardsmen, as simple as that. Landraider with terminators is a terrible choice. So many marine players fail to understand that everything termies can do tactical squad can do too - against guardsmen. And Landrider usually dies way before it gets a chance to close up.

Second, deep striking. Many players are obsessed with the idea to get to IG close asap. But what deepstriking really does is puts your units in the most lethal range of my fire. You will die, trust me on this. I'm yet to have a game where deep striking does any damage whatsoever to me. You can pop a chimera or two if you deepstrike meltas and if I deploy in silly ways. Thats all.

What I fear most is numbers a.k.a MSU. If you take tactical squads with missiles, flamers and meltas in rhinos like no tomorrow, guardsmen will be scared. Simple tactical squad can kill everything in Guardsmen codex. It can charge multiple units. Krak grenades kill tanks. Your butter and bread must be tactical squads with rhinos/razorbacks for speed.

Additional options could be Landspeeders with HF and MM, scout bikes with meltas and meltabombs (not recommended but sometimes works well).

Now about the guys army. In my humble opinion, it's not that competitive, leave alone broken. Basilisk is generaly not worth it due to 36'' minimum range and AV12. If there's a line of sight, it dies. If there isn't, it's 36'' minimum range which is huge. Nowdays I always leave my bassie at home... a shame, because I love the model

Now the multiple HQ bombardment you were talking about, I generally consider them nearly useless too. It scatters just too much. With a shooty army like this I'd rather take master of the fleet to encourage the opponent to deploy everything on turn 1.

So all in all I believe this list is pretty beatable by Marines. Good luck next time