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I'm planning on converting my Dark Angels successor chapter to use the newer Codex: Space Marines to take advantage of more modern tactics. I run a deathwing-oriented army (1x Assault Terminator squad w/ TLCs, 2x normal terminator squads, 1x LRC/LRR, and 1x Venerable Dread w/ Assault Cannon and Missile Launcher), but also have some tactical squads (15 models), a scout squad with CCW/BP (5 models) and a squad of veterans that could work as sternguard (5-8 models). I have an HQ who could proxy for Lysander or a Terminator Chapter Master, and another that is a PF-armed Power Armor Captain. Lastly I have a terminator-librarian with a storm bolter and force weapon. Any suggestions? I'd really like to avoid the money-sink that is drop pods or vehicle-spam. Essentially, how do I convert this army to run an effective, primarily foot-slogging Codex: Space Marines list?

Well, with only 1 and a half Tac squads and 1 scout squad you will find it very difficult.


if you got a Techmarine and ran him as a MOTF you could run your 3 terminator squads and your Dred.

you will have to get used to not having Terminators be scoring.

Your Terminator Libby would be best if your swapped that Stormbolter for a SS.

Captains and Chapter masters arn't fabulous HQs. Libbys, Chaplains, and MOTFs are best aside from Special Characters.


you WILL need more Tac marines. prehaps those Veterans can stand in as some regular dudes.

i would get 5 more tac marines to beef out that 5 man squad to a full ten man. Footsloggin marines definitly need numbers.

Hmmm...walking marines eh? I'll give it a try...
More Tactical Marines like others already pointed out, I'd advice you to keep them cheap so you can have enough that atleast some will be alive at the end to keep objectives.
Also some Scout Bikers with Locator Beacons to zoom in to get the terminators where you need them and hand out enough Teleport Homers to ensure they can support the homefield. Now I'm asuming defensive play with the normal Marines, don't really know how any good way to run across the field to get into rapid fire range.
As HQs I'd say a master of the forge with a Conversion Beamer and a Librarian, since you got one in terminator armour I'd guess either stick him with the assault ones and kit him for close combat or place him with a normal terminator squad and have a go with him teleporting them around the board where they are needed.
Might be worth considering a land speeder or two with heavy flamer and multi-melta for some back-up fire power.

Please note that I don't play with "nomal" marines(go go Blood Angels!) so I am mainly theorising from what I know and what I think could work, so I'm sure there is some veteran around here that will be more than happy to tell whatever this is viable or not.

you could possibly try space wolves and "Logan Wing"

I actually forgot about my techmarine. He's hard to remember because he's old style and keeps ending up in my 'auxillary' pile because I don't run many vehicles. I guess he could work as MotF. Finding more tac. squads shouldn't be too hard; my FLGS sells repackaged AoBR. The vets can stand in but are also old style so look significantly different; not my first choice for mixing squads. What units get teleport homers other than scout bikes? I'm trying to avoid bikes due to their (IMO) unwarranted dollar cost.

Tac squads and scouts can take Teliport homers.

So maybe deploy three tac. squads and the scouts and then bring the rain by DSing the shooty terminators? Assault Terminators go in the LRC (when feasible), and the MotF, the venerable dread, and what is hopefully going to be an AoBR dread cover the anti-tank, or maybe bring cyclone racks on the terminators.

Might be worth trying out setting the scouts somewhere mid-field in cover with camo cloaks and just go to ground when they get shot at, this will give you a forward Teleport Homer and force the opponent to deal with them or get potential Terminators with Cyclone Missiles hitting the side of their tanks/transport. *shrugs*
Also if you give the second tactical terminator squad a heavy flamer and then add the librarian with Gate to Infinity(or whatever that teleporting psychic power is called) it could make a potential anti-assault unit that could jump between Teleport Homers, or maybe those don't work with the psychic power?

I'd say just roll with Codex: Space Wolves.

You can make your Terminators troops using Logan, who can be represented by your Terminator HQ, then your "Veterans" can be Power Armored Wolf Guard, giving you more troops on the board. Plus, you have the added advantage of Lightning Claws which can reroll to hit or to wound.

All in all, C:SW would give you a more fluffy army, plus a slightly more competitive one.

There is no point Deep Striking Tactical Terminators. They are massively outclassed by Assault Terminators in assault (obviously) so giving them a Heavy Flamer is pointless as they maybe get to fire it once before ending up in assault (and even that will often require risky Deep Strikes to get close enough). Better to just stick with Assault Terminators if you want that kind of close in unit.

The best option for shooting Terminators is to take the Cyclone Missile Launcher, it has a massive range so you can deploy normally and fire pretty much the entire game. With a 2+ save its very difficult to torrent the unit to death and also means you are safe again Missile spam lists. Plasma and other AP2 weapons aren't as common due to their cost and the abundance of cover in 5th, so other than short range melta weapons you won't get blasted off the board very often. On top of that while you aren't as awesome as Assault Terminators in combat you still have power fists which is still pretty good (as long as you get to strike).

I'm not going with C:SW because of the cheese-issues: as far as rules go, I'm lactose-intolerant. If they weren't so new and so good then maybe, but I'm not sure that my army's background fits at all with Space Wolves. (No offense intended to the Space Wolves players; I'm not trying to be THAT person.) It would seem transferring my army from Codex: Dark Angels to C:SM is like shoving a square peg in a round hole; it might technically fit, but that doesn't mean it will function as-intended. I think I'll just stick with Dark Angels and deal with the outdated wargear to keep with my fluff. Sorry to waste everyone's time.

EDIT: Learned why nobody abbreviates the DA Codex: CA

I think you can make it work, but it will probably involve more purchases than you want to make at this time.

DA are still basically a 4th ed codex, and the release of 5th ed means that some expenditures are (sadly) most likely needed if you want to keep pace.

Think about adding Shrike. A minimal purchase, but makes those 15 terminators suddenly a lot more scary, with one unit infiltrating and another one assaulting 21-27" out of the land raider.

Spring for one drop pod for the sternguard and equip them with combi-meltas, and you've got an army that can open transports and assault the guys who fall out in the same turn.

You'll still be outclassed by genuine mech lists, and you'll probably need to start the land raider off the table any time you're not going first, since it's your only vehicle and will get lit up by everything available. But at least an army full of fleeting, assaulting terminators has a theme and a focus that will be viable in some games.

Great suggestions!

I'm not going with C:SW because of the cheese-issues: as far as rules go, I'm lactose-intolerant. If they weren't so new and so good then maybe, but I'm not sure that my army's background fits at all with Space Wolves. (No offense intended to the Space Wolves players; I'm not trying to be THAT person.) It would seem transferring my army from Codex: Dark Angels to C:SM is like shoving a square peg in a round hole; it might technically fit, but that doesn't mean it will function as-intended. I think I'll just stick with Dark Angels and deal with the outdated wargear to keep with my fluff. Sorry to waste everyone's time.

EDIT: Learned why nobody abbreviates the DA Codex: CA

I can totally see where you're coming from here. I played pure Deathwing for a while and it was so restrictive. It's very hard to have any kind of flexibility when your squads have to be exactly 5 strong. I actually tried Loganwing for a bit based on flexibility and while it was more interesting, my list became far too good and much less Deathwing. I'm not WAAC guy, but if you're going to use Logan in a pod, you almost have to use him with a Long Fang unit right? Eventually I scraped the project.

I love Terminators and really want a terminator army to be good, I just don't know that there is a very competitive way of running it. I recently tried Scouts as troops and Terminator spam with Lysander. The army was trash. I actually think that in order to compete with Terminators you have to:

1. Play Logan wing
2. Play a Deathwing assault terminator list

Logan wing in pods is very, very good. Deathwing in Landraiders is less competitive than ever. Too many armies can handle land raiders with ease. Spam Terminators with assault cannons. Deep strike in. Supplement with dreds. That's the best I can come up with.

Hi, im new here and noob in 40k, but if you say, that you have some vet and they can be used as stern, so maybe they can be used also as tac, so you have another scoring unit, or if they are realy as stern vet, put kantor into HQ list so your stren became scoring unit, put him with stern, made from 2 termies squads 1 big with 2xAC or 2xHF and try to keep them into kantor +1A buuble, Assualt termies with libbi in LRC/LRR - better, equip your scouts with snipers, full tac squad with some heavy weapons like ML etc, put them into rhino. Maybe equip your dread with TLLC/TLAC. BUt this is only mpow, like i say im here for only few days and also begin with my SM army .

I would probably recommend getting a Battleforce box to beef out your tacs and your scouts - more troops the better. And here's a (rather expensive) idea; Khan and landraiders. Shove those termis in their own landraiders and have them outflank. That will ruin someones day. Give the normal termis an assault cannon and a couple of chainfists and use them to chew up the small vehicles and infantry. Then perhaps t-hammer termis teleporting in so you block them off and smash up whats left.

Alphapod wrote:I'm planning on converting my Dark Angels successor chapter to use the newer Codex: Space Marines to take advantage of more modern tactics. I run a deathwing-oriented army (1x Assault Terminator squad w/ TLCs, 2x normal terminator squads, 1x LRC/LRR, and 1x Venerable Dread w/ Assault Cannon and Missile Launcher), but also have some tactical squads (15 models), a scout squad with CCW/BP (5 models) and a squad of veterans that could work as sternguard (5-8 models). I have an HQ who could proxy for Lysander or a Terminator Chapter Master, and another that is a PF-armed Power Armor Captain. Lastly I have a terminator-librarian with a storm bolter and force weapon. Any suggestions? I'd really like to avoid the money-sink that is drop pods or vehicle-spam. Essentially, how do I convert this army to run an effective, primarily foot-slogging Codex: Space Marines list?

1st off Don't repaint anything, keep your army DA in paint job, wait for your next DA codex, but feel free to use another codex.

Ok here is my idea. It uses a very cheesy codex (blood angels), but it's actually a low cholesterol list that uses just about every miniature you have.

HQ
Librarian in power armor

Elites
3 Sanguinary Priests (Use your squad of veterans as the models, and call them something dark angelish. It only uses 3 of the models but they will be a key centerpiece of the army)
10 Tactical Terminators with 2 heavy weapons.
7 Assault Terminators (buy another box) mixed LC and TH in a LR crusader along with the librarian and a priest.

Heavy support
Your deadnaught
A dev squad with quad ML (It's actually cheaper than your dread and may tempt you to drop the dread at a later date)

Troops
Your 5 scouts
20 Tac Marines
10 assault marines with 2 melta guns, they can DOA or hide behind the land raider.

Comes to about 2k, it does not play like a normal BA list, it's not a high cholesterol ultra cheese list, but it would still be competitive. Best of all it would only require you to buy 5 tac marines, 10 assault marines, a box of assault terminators, and a dev squad.

Alphapod wrote:I'm not going with C:SW because of the cheese-issues: as far as rules go, I'm lactose-intolerant. If they weren't so new and so good then maybe, but I'm not sure that my army's background fits at all with Space Wolves. (No offense intended to the Space Wolves players; I'm not trying to be THAT person.) It would seem transferring my army from Codex: Dark Angels to C:SM is like shoving a square peg in a round hole; it might technically fit, but that doesn't mean it will function as-intended. I think I'll just stick with Dark Angels and deal with the outdated wargear to keep with my fluff. Sorry to waste everyone's time.

EDIT: Learned why nobody abbreviates the DA Codex: CA

Again, I appreciate everyone's suggestions. Maybe in the future a low-cholesterol BA or Loganwing will appeal to me. But right now I'm going to stick with my Deathwing. My armies already gears to play to Deathwing's strengths (what few there are). Sorry to cut everyone short and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'm going to stay with DA for now.

Alphapod wrote:

Alphapod wrote:I'm not going with C:SW because of the cheese-issues: as far as rules go, I'm lactose-intolerant. If they weren't so new and so good then maybe, but I'm not sure that my army's background fits at all with Space Wolves. (No offense intended to the Space Wolves players; I'm not trying to be THAT person.) It would seem transferring my army from Codex: Dark Angels to C:SM is like shoving a square peg in a round hole; it might technically fit, but that doesn't mean it will function as-intended. I think I'll just stick with Dark Angels and deal with the outdated wargear to keep with my fluff. Sorry to waste everyone's time.

EDIT: Learned why nobody abbreviates the DA Codex: CA

Again, I appreciate everyone's suggestions. Maybe in the future a low-cholesterol BA or Loganwing will appeal to me. But right now I'm going to stick with my Deathwing. My armies already gears to play to Deathwing's strengths (what few there are). Sorry to cut everyone short and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'm going to stay with DA for now.

DA is an old codex, but it is a lot more functional than tau or necrons.

Just build up to 30 terminators mostly tac. It is a solid base, 6 scoring units, and 6 kp for well over 1200 points. Deathwing as deathwing can work, and people really won't expect it.