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Hey dakka,

A scenario came up in a game some months ago ('Ard Boyz preliminaries, i believe) where I was playing against another Tyranid player. He assaulted a brood of termagants on his turn with a mawloc, and won combat. After I took my fearless wounds, he passed an Initiative test as per 'hit and run' and broke from combat. He then told me that since I had lost the combat, I couldn't consolidate even though the rule for hit and run specifically states the unit no longer locked in combat may consolidate *as normal*. I highlighted the (as normal) because that was his counter-point, in the rulebook entry for consolidation it specifically refers to victorious units, thus not permitting units that lost the combat this extra d6" move. I let it go and went on to beat him and move onto the semi finals (where i got reamed HARD), but I was just thinking about it again with the new DE codex and their potential hit-and-runners.

Basically my question is this : If a unit loses combat but stays locked in, and the winner breaks with hit-and-run, does the losing unit get a consolidation move and why? I need to back it up if i ever have to play this guy again. And If i'm wrong I don't want to cheat.

thanks

The 'as normal' refers to the consolidation a unit normally gets when it breaks from combat with another unit. It does not refer to winning.

Under his interpretation a unit of Boyz who lose 10 of their number taking 3 wounds off Vulkan did not win combat (techncially) and therefore do not get to consolidate.

I agree with that, calypso. Unfortunately the TO sided with my opponent that day, taking a fluffier approach of "Oh well the losing side was so startled/distracted by the staggering loss that they can't even begin to think about pursuing a fleeing enemy" Or some such thing. I was red in the ears but I played it through regardless.

Thanks for the input.

I don't have the rulebook before me, but do they still have a differentiation between a standard 3" consolidation and the massacre d6" consolidation? Or am I being confused by previous editions?

Yes the unit should get a consolidation. The rule for hit and run says "Enemy units that are no longer in combat may consolidate." It has no mention of "as normal" in the actual rule for hit and run. It just gives them permission to do so.

Saldiven - you're thinking of 4th ed. 5th ed is always always always D6" consolidation.

If he uses that fluff justification tell him they weren't pursuing the Mawloc knocked them 6" closer to his Termagaunts while it was running, which is a sad day for said Gaunts or 3" further away if you like or whichever way you choose to consolidate. heck maybe they stumbled around a few inches trying to figure out where the giant monster went?

tetrisphreak wrote:... the rule for hit and run specifically states the unit no longer locked in combat may consolidate *as normal*.

It doesn't say 'as normal'... it simply says that the enemy unit can consolidate. So the enemy unit can consolidate.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Saldiven - you're thinking of 4th ed. 5th ed is always always always D6" consolidation.

Ok, I was feeling perplexed. I still had it in my head that there was a difference between a regular consolidation and a consolidation due to massacre. That's a left-over from 4th, right?

Yep, 4th ed had the whole 3" if they run and you dont catch them, or through NR! wounds. It was only D6 if you wiped them out in combat through simply killing.

It was also one of those horribly badly edited rules, where the rules over the page referred back to the rules for combats on the previous page, but without stating it very clearly.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yep, 4th ed had the whole 3" if they run and you dont catch them, or through NR! wounds. It was only D6 if you wiped them out in combat through simply killing.

It was also one of those horribly badly edited rules, where the rules over the page referred back to the rules for combats on the previous page, but without stating it very clearly.

Cool. I'm still getting my feet wet again with 5th ed. after a fairly long hiatus as I waited for DE to get redone. (I think I have an even longer wait to ever be able to see my Alpha Legion on the board again.)

on a semi-related question, what happens if a Hit-and-Run character wins the combat by defeating the enemey's unit... either by then failing leadership and retreat or an outright kill. does he consolidate d6 or hit-and-run 3d6?

TK-421 wrote:on a semi-related question, what happens if a Hit-and-Run character wins the combat by defeating the enemey's unit... either by then failing leadership and retreat or an outright kill. does he consolidate d6 or hit-and-run 3d6?

just a consolidation, as there is nothing to hit&run now

Hit and run allows a model to disengage from close combat. So he can't perform a Hit and Run if he is no longer engaged in close combat.

I was afraid of that.... thanks for clearing it up

D6. It's not longer in combat, so it can't disengage.