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I've been out of competitive 40k for a long time (since late 3rd edition), having found Warmachine to be a much better competitive outlet for myself. For a while I held onto my Dark Eldar, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Tau. Slowly but surely I sold off everything except the Tau, which I even expanded a little bit because I prefer my scfi games to involve guns over sword / axe / whatever wielding manics

After speaking with some old friends, I'm slowly getting the urge to not only play some more 40k, but to attend some tournaments. Unfortunately, I'm competitive to the core and completely understand that GW makes no attempts at keeping codexes competitive or fair, espeically when dealing with the older codexes. I just plain have the most fun playing in a competitive environment as opposed to a casual environment where I have to worry that my list might annoy people. So that leaves me with the following options -- what would you recommend?

1) Take the Tau that I already have (and happen to like style wise), finish painting them up, and do my best to win with an outclassed codex?
2) Sell the whole lot and buy the flavor of the month, hopefully completing it before the next flavor is available?
3) Drop the idea of playing 40k competitively (sticking to Warmachine for that aspect of mini gaming) and stick to playing 40k casually a couple of times a year

the newer 5th ed codexes are pretty balanced in terms of power, however there are just some builds that are more easy to use than others. Tau however has been seriously nerfed in 5th. Put them on the back burner as they may get an update in the foreseeable future (like, a year or two from now) and stick with Warmachine or casual games until then. If you're the type that always has to win, go with Space Wolves.

I would suggest a number of different actions (your call on which to go with, obviously).

1. Build up to Tournament play: This would involve continuing with your Tau, playing casually for now, and finding the best build you can make with Tau and going to tournaments with it after getting back into the flow of things. I like this approach because it lets you get back into Warhammer, get the requisite research done before jumping into it, and also lets you see if Tourney play is really what you want to do.

2. Jump into Tournament play: This involves finding the best way to field what you have, finishing painting ASAP, and jumping into Tourney play. This approach has the benefit of hitting the tournament field before more codicies comes out, thus granting you a higher rate of success (probably).

3. Continue to play, but casually: If you truly like Warmachine more than 40K, then continue to play that competitively. You mention it's a better outlet for yourself, and I can only assume it's better balanced. This approach lets you continue your sci-fi game as Tau, but focuses on the game you better know (and probably better enjoy) as your main "competitive" filler.

4. Sever all ties with Warhammer completely: This is a drastic move, but it may be for the best. If you are getting into Warhammer again, you should probably go with at least option 3. However, if playing both proves to be too distracting or time-consuming, then you should probably go Warmachine (if you truly like it more).

I have left out your second idea, buying the flavor of the month (Imperial Guard), because to make a good list would be very expensive, and you should (in my opinion) ensure that you want to play 40K competitively again before making such a drastic leap.

Remember that the choice is yours, and above all else, HAVE FUN! Good luck on your decision.

Yours,
TheRedArmy

I'd say you should probably try and stick with your Tau but it depends on whether you think you'll have fun with them even if you don't win. I mean sure you probably won't win all the time with the Tau but the important thing is whether you'll have fun trying to win with them.

model_bits_matt wrote:I'd say you should probably try and stick with your Tau but it depends on whether you think you'll have fun with them even if you don't win. I mean sure you probably won't win all the time with the Tau but the important thing is whether you'll have fun trying to win with them.

I can have fun losing as long as I'm giving my opponent a challenge while I'm going down in flames. I still read a little bit about it here and there and still listen to the 40k players chat at the LGS, and I hear some things that make me think I should stay away. Things like scout bikes being able to 100% guaranteed lock up any shooting unit in melee in turn 1. If my shooty elements like broadsides and crisis suites are guaranteed to get locked into combat without a chance to fire, I probably don't want to play Tau because there won't be a chance of having even a close game.

That means I should sell the Tau and pickup something else, but I'm not sure I have the will to do that because the next codex will likely have some way of messing up the new trick out of whatever dex I pick. Codex creep does not amuse me :(

I'm thinking of going with TheRedArmy's first option. I can paint up the existing Tau that I do have and try to pickup some casual games at the LGS. I can get back into the flow and see if it would be enjoyable to branch back into 40k - if its not fun, I can always shelf the Tau until the next Dex when they are they new hotness

I main Necrons and I like the challenge of knowing that most armies have an advantage over me. I think in the end it will make me a better player. You need to hold it down for the Tau!
Of course, I don't play tournies, so I could see being frustrated there.

Tau was never a strong (AKA first tier) army.

Necrons and Tau are currently the two most uncompetitive codexes in core power.

That said, you can still win with them, it is just much easier to win with some of the modern codexes like IG or Space Wolves.

Endgame wrote:

I can have fun losing as long as I'm giving my opponent a challenge while I'm going down in flames. I still read a little bit about it here and there and still listen to the 40k players chat at the LGS, and I hear some things that make me think I should stay away. Things like scout bikes being able to 100% guaranteed lock up any shooting unit in melee in turn 1. If my shooty elements like broadsides and crisis suites are guaranteed to get locked into combat without a chance to fire, I probably don't want to play Tau because there won't be a chance of having even a close game.

This is what kroot and pirhanas are for. Use these units to block movement lanes and protect your suits. In every competitive Tau list I would suggest at least 2 units of kroot (10-12 w/ 2-4 hounds) and at least 1 squadron of 2 Pirhanas.

That means I should sell the Tau and pickup something else, but I'm not sure I have the will to do that because the next codex will likely have some way of messing up the new trick out of whatever dex I pick. Codex creep does not amuse me :(

Meh, most of the newer codicies are well-balanaced. People rant and rave about how broken new armies are.....until the actually pick up and read the codex a few times, play a few games against it, and figure out how to beat this so called "broken" unit or strategy.

Case in point. Leafblower lists were considered the "ultimate power list" when in fact they actually kinda suck. "Leafblower" lists aren't seen that often anymore in tournaments because of this fact. People figured out that they're not too hard to beat.

If you don't mind losing, as long as you're still having a fun challenge, then play your Tau a bunch. Tailor your list, then play more. After that, request that your friends start bringing spammy tourney lists, like leafblower, or space wolf copy/paste lists, and learn to fight these. Yes, you may not win the tourney, but you will give everyone a fight for their title that they did not see coming. "What's that, no power armor, shooting oriented? Never seen that before. 72" str. 10 AP 1? But-but, I can ignore it if it's melta or FNP, or, uh, dangit, I was not prepared for that".

You can play competitively with Tau, it'll just be harder to win vs top tier armies. As for the scout bikers, that's what kroot wraps are for

Check kirby's blog http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/ for his list and probably tactics as well.

Kilkrazy wrote:Necrons and Tau are currently the two most uncompetitive codexes in core power.

Daemonhunters until they get their new 'dex?

Keep the Tau. Obviously there is something you like in them as stated above. Play them for fun or run them in team tournaments. They buddy well with an aggressive CC army.

What does your current army (list) look like?

As a Tau player (and my first army) I hate to see anyone abandon them ;-)

Only problem with Tau is your stuck with using one type of list and have to min/max everything just to get it to "good" let alone powerful.

That being said any victories you get wil be all the more sweet because you had to outplay your opponent not outlist him

mcyeatman wrote:Keep the Tau. Obviously there is something you like in them as stated above. Play them for fun or run them in team tournaments. They buddy well with an aggressive CC army.

What does your current army (list) look like?

Currently have models built for this 1850 list:

HQ:
Shas'el w/ HW MT, HWDC, Fusion Blaster, Plasma, Missile Pod, Irridum Armor, 2x Shield Drones
Shas'el w/ HW MT, Fusion Blaster, Plasma, Missile Pod

Elites:
2x Crisis Suites
1x Sun Fire Team Leader (Plasma, Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, HW MT)
1x Helios (Plasma, Fusion, Multi Tracker)

2x Crisis Suites
1x Sun Fire Team Leader (Plasma, Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, HW MT)
1x Helios (Plasma, Fusion, Multi Tracker)

3x Crisis Suites
1x Sun Fire Team Leader (Plasma, Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, HW MT)
1x Helios (Plasma, Fusion, Multi Tracker)
1x Fire Knife (Plasma, Missile Pod, Multi Tracker)

Why the 3 weapon suites you ask? So that way I can pick whichever two are best in current situation. For the price of a deathrain squad, you can upgrade the Team Leaders and HQ to have 3 weapons to be good against any enemy. Previously, I was sticking all the MIssile pods on a 3 man deathrain squad which was... lacking to say the least.

Troops
6x Firewarriors (bum ride off of Pathfinder Devil Fish)
6x Firewarriors (bum ride off of Pathfinder Devil Fish)
12x Bonded Firewarriors w/ Shas'ui (This squad hides in terrain of some form and maybe gives me enough anti horde)

Fast Attack
8x Pathfinders
Devilfish w/ Disruption pod

8x Pathfinders
Devilfish w/ Disruption pod

8 hits on average should give me enough markerlights to light up whatever squad I really need dead.

Heavy Support
Hammerhead w/ Railgun, Burst Cannon, Disruption Pod, & Multi Tracker
Hammerhead w/ Railgun, Burst Cannon, Disruption Pod, & Multi Tracker

2x Broadsides w/ Targeting Array

I have around 30 Kroot unassembled, not sure if its worth putting them together though. For the most part, I'm already lacking enough guns, so I'm not sure taking some away will help.

Put the Kroot together, they are great for securing points and such.

I would put the kroot together. They are great for bubble-wrapping your expensive stuff. The most competitive Tau I have seen involves tons of suits, min firewarriors and kroot bubblewrap.

If you are truly competitive though, I would bite the bullet and sell the Tau and buy a new army. IG would be the best bet, as they fit your style of gun over sword and they are currently the most competitive codex to date.

Nungunz wrote:

Endgame wrote:

I can have fun losing as long as I'm giving my opponent a challenge while I'm going down in flames. I still read a little bit about it here and there and still listen to the 40k players chat at the LGS, and I hear some things that make me think I should stay away. Things like scout bikes being able to 100% guaranteed lock up any shooting unit in melee in turn 1. If my shooty elements like broadsides and crisis suites are guaranteed to get locked into combat without a chance to fire, I probably don't want to play Tau because there won't be a chance of having even a close game.

This is what kroot and pirhanas are for. Use these units to block movement lanes and protect your suits. In every competitive Tau list I would suggest at least 2 units of kroot (10-12 w/ 2-4 hounds) and at least 1 squadron of 2 Pirhanas.

That means I should sell the Tau and pickup something else, but I'm not sure I have the will to do that because the next codex will likely have some way of messing up the new trick out of whatever dex I pick. Codex creep does not amuse me :(

Meh, most of the newer codicies are well-balanaced. People rant and rave about how broken new armies are.....until the actually pick up and read the codex a few times, play a few games against it, and figure out how to beat this so called "broken" unit or strategy.

Case in point. Leafblower lists were considered the "ultimate power list" when in fact they actually kinda suck. "Leafblower" lists aren't seen that often anymore in tournaments because of this fact. People figured out that they're not too hard to beat.

I agree with the above. While there is a power imbalance between codices, overall 40k has never been as balanced and enjoyable for competitive play as it is now.

Endgame, you are likely to need to significantly update your army and change your list, but I think Tau are more than capable of performing well in competitive games. Proper use of important units like Pirhana and Kroot is critical, from what I've seen.

Shrubs wrote:You can play competitively with Tau, it'll just be harder to win vs top tier armies. As for the scout bikers, that's what kroot wraps are for

Check kirby's blog http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/ for his list and probably tactics as well.

Yup. Definitely check out some of the Tau resources and blogs out there. Tau can be surprisingly good.

Kroot, CS and BS seem to work best for me. You will need one FW team for 1+. The Railheads are to costly for one shot which you might not get again. We just played an Apoc game yesterday and my Railheads were drawling all the fire while they ignored the BS. Love it!

Since you will most likely be playing SM, I would go with Plasma and Missile Pods on the CS.

My thoughts for what its worth. But as they say, "opinions are like backsides, everyone's got one and they stink".

BS = Broadside