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Lots of talk about how good the Blood Angels and Space Wolves are, but what about the Black Templar? How do people believe they fair amongst the other Space Marine Codexes in the current meta of 40k?

They have their plus points still however I do think these are becoming more and more limited with every new space marine codex coming out.

This is due to all of these armies having their new toys/abilities that the BT can't access because of their outdated codex.

As a Templar player myself I can say the following:

We want toys too!

In all seriousness, the biggest thing we have going for us ATM is that we've got the best potential all-pod list going ATM. That, furious charge on termies and old smoke. The problems include expensive rhinoes, expensive as gak razorbacks, no sergeants in our squads, leadership tests at 1 killed and target priority tests that we have to take despite RAW saying we don't.

As a Tyranid player, I beat Black Templar more frequently than other MEQ armies.

Did they get an added on rule or something that lets them take Drop Pods?

Also, what are people's feelings on Neophytes?

The Black Templars still have the old rules for drop pods, meaning you roll for reserves, you don't auto-drop half the first round. This greatly complicates things for your opponent, as it makes reserving everything that much more uncertain.

As for neophytes, they're there to die. Simple as that, you get them to fill out squads and dump wounds on them so your REAL marines can get Righteous Zeal and get into close combat. And, as they're an integral part of Templar blobs, I like them!

Everytime I consider trying BT I realize I have to pay for my frags and kraks, and suddenly I get very ornery.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:As for neophytes, they're there to die. Simple as that, you get them to fill out squads and dump wounds on them so your REAL marines can get Righteous Zeal and get into close combat. And, as they're an integral part of Templar blobs, I like them!

Yep that's how I use them too, ideally you have a Marshall on the table too so you'll be taking your leadership tests at ld10 which should pretty much guarantee successful RZ tests.

One trick that a lot of people forget about with BT is the ability to min-max Crusader squads unlike other marine armies BT can take a special and heavy weapon in a 5 man squad. Now not many armies will use such squads since the BT's strength is close combat but it's a nice option to have if you need a small squad to lurk on an objective. Certainly I've had a squad like this annoy my opponents simply because when in cover they have a habit of not dying.

Personally I really like the BT despite the old codex, they've got a lot of character as an army and are fun to play with particularly when you hide very nasty characters within your Templar blobs. It's quite entertaining watching a 'nid player moving his big nasty close combat monsters away from a Crusader squad simply because there's a character within it. One character I'm going to have to try as some point is the 'Castellan of Doom.' Equip a Castellan with 2 lighting claws, temi honours and a jump pack. The result is a character with 7 attacks on the charge, who will have hit (assuming you have the right vow) and wound rerolls and can move 12". Hide him in a 10 man assault squad and you've got something really nasty for your opponent to worry about.

Nick Ellingworth wrote:
the result is a character with 7 attacks on the charge,

6 attacks

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Nick Ellingworth wrote:
the result is a character with 7 attacks on the charge,

6 attacks

Check the rule book, two special weapons (which lightning claws are) actually give you another attack in addition to the usual +1 for having two close combat weapons, I didn't believe it myself until I read the rule.

So I'll do the maths:

3 (base) + 1 (2 CCWs) +1 (for 2 special weapons) + 1 (termi honours) + 1 (charging) = 7 attacks. Even if it were 6 that character would be scary.

It doesn't say that you get one extra attack in addition to having an extra attack from 2 CCWs, it simply states that "These models gain one additional attack". Considering that the "standard" is 1 CCW, I'd say that this refers to you getting 1 extra attack because you have 2 CCWs, and meet the criteria of your even more specific CCW by having a pair. Thus, 6 attacks.

terminator command squad: 3 terminators, 2 assault cannons, and Tank hunters.

Also, Plasma Guns are Very Cheep! like almost 1/3 the cost of other people.

Drop pods that can shoot when they land.

Venerable dreads with Tank hunter Lascanons

That's 4 Terminators, not 3. And you have to get an HQ unit in termie armour to get one, but that's not really a drawback anyway.

To be honest i thought it was only dark angels that used toys

Hey, lay off the Dark angels lol

A friend of mine wanted to play Black Templars and to be honest me and the other guy who I game with told him he'd be better off using a different codex because, especially as he's a new player, it would just complicate things later on.

model_bits_matt wrote:Hey, lay off the Dark angels lol

A friend of mine wanted to play Black Templars and to be honest me and the other guy who I game with told him he'd be better off using a different codex because, especially as he's a new player, it would just complicate things later on.

Named after a poem about being gay by a gay poet (who their primarch is named after) and they have a deep dark secret? yeah

Corpses you know that the BT derive from the ultra Mariens right? I personaly wouldnt play BT though. They only have 3 special charectores. Space wolves are better at everything BT is good at. An i just dont think they have the numbers to actuly compete with some one. Im also not a very big Marine fan. BUt hey it is fun than play um

Eldrad wrote:Corpses you know that the BT derive from the ultra Mariens right? I personaly wouldnt play BT though. They only have 3 special charectores. Space wolves are better at everything BT is good at. An i just dont think they have the numbers to actuly compete with some one. Im also not a very big Marine fan. BUt hey it is fun than play um

HERESY OF THE UTMOST DEGREE!!!


The Black Templars are the Sons of Dorn, and none other!

Oh, and we only have 2 SCs, High Marshal Helbrecht and Grimaldus, Hero of Helsreach. And, as I have already written, Templars do all-pod armies better than anyone else, including the SWs.

The things they do are still as good as any other chapter. The problem, as has been said, is the lack of toys. I was doing really well with BT against most of the modern codices up until a few months ago (I never played wolves, but I think I would have smoked them, MEQs were my easier games)

But they already had fewer heavy support, troop, elite, and fast options than other 4th ed codices. Now against 5th codices with double the options the problem just gets that much bigger.

If you are a person who just builds one list for an army and then moves on to another army I say go BT all the way. If you like to collect more and play lots of different lists within the same book you'll have to go "counts as" marines a lot.

5 man termi squads with 2 assault cannons is still a good thing though (with tank hunter) as is the old style smoke launchers on their vehicles (especially LRC's and Vindi's).

Don't the vindi's still benefit from the old machine spirit rules meaning it can pretty much always fire unless it gets a weapon destroyed result? That is a nice ability if it is still valid.

I don't play my BT list as regular as I used to so please forgive my ignorance.

I don't see the difference between BT Drop Armies and any other TBH.

Please Enlighten.

On a side note...

BLESSED HULL???

Talk about nerfing DE completely. They have like no other weapons that can destroy Armour 14 other than Haywire Grenades.

It turns it into a mini Monolith in regards to armour.

Heat lance

Blessed hull is certaintly cool though.

Puscifer wrote:I don't see the difference between BT Drop Armies and any other TBH.

Please Enlighten.

Sure thing!

Black Templars still have the old Drop Pod rules, meaning that we have to roll in everyone of our Drop Pods from reserves, starting at round 2. When facing a 5th edition Drop Pod army, the obvious tactic is to go all reserves and just wait until half the pods have dropped the first round. Then you simply shoot holes in whatever is on the board when you come on, and kill the remaining units becaus you've got an intact army while your opponent does not.

Not so with the Black Templars! Since we don't auto-drop half our pods the first round, we (statiscally speaking) always have a target to drop close to and engage. This makes the army better at alpha-striking than a normal drop pod list, and the alpha strike is what the entire drop pod list idea is all about. The lack of Sternguard Veterans and AV 13 walkers is a bit annoying though, but that can be solved, notably with Terminators with 2 Assault Cannons and Tank Hunters along with a combi-melta HQ unit.

Ahhh thanks. Now that is better, but it still doesn't make up for a lack of new toys :-(.

The BT codex has to be the most boring codex ever. Fluff sucks, the army seems to be greatly lacking, although I now dig the old drop rules and the LRC Spam.

Just remember that "fluff sucks" depends on who you talk to. And to be honest, look at Space Wolves. Wolf Wolfborn on his battle wolf with a wolf claw etc. Same thing with th Blood Angels who just happens to like blood almost as much as the Khorne-worshipping World Eaters and hug Necrons during their spare time. And don't get me started on Mephiston. Black Templars Chaplain gets a cathedral collapsed on him, claws his way out and gets a nifty special rule. Blood Angels Librarian gets a building collapsed on top of him, combined with that little nifty Black Rage, claws his way out, becomes the most insane CC monster in the entire game bar silly things like Angron.

And I agree that Blessed Hull is kinda awesome, but it's 25 points! Ouch!

Remember as well that the BT are an amazingly fun army to use if you love fighting in hand to hand combat.

Given the right vow as well, we arguably have the most killy assault terminators in the imperium....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Just remember that "fluff sucks" depends on who you talk to. And to be honest, look at Space Wolves. Wolf Wolfborn on his battle wolf with a wolf claw etc. Same thing with th Blood Angels who just happens to like blood almost as much as the Khorne-worshipping World Eaters and hug Necrons during their spare time. And don't get me started on Mephiston. Black Templars Chaplain gets a cathedral collapsed on him, claws his way out and gets a nifty special rule. Blood Angels Librarian gets a building collapsed on top of him, combined with that little nifty Black Rage, claws his way out, becomes the most insane CC monster in the entire game bar silly things like Angron.

And I agree that Blessed Hull is kinda awesome, but it's 25 points! Ouch!

I also agree that its bizarre how both characters had the same thing happen yet only one benefitted hugely...

I see Grimaldus becoming a MONSTER next edition. Helbrecht too.