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How well do Space Wolves do without relying on Razorback/Long Fang/Wolf Guard/Thunderwolf spam? I've no problem with using A unit of Thunderwolves or Long Fangs or Wolf Guard. Mostly want to use a bunch of Grey Hunters and/or Blood Claws. Does that work well? Would you put them in Rhinos or Pods?

If you want to forgo Razor Spam, then 10 man Grey hunter units with Paired Special weapons in Rhinos is where you want to go. Then if you are going for Blood claws you want them in Land Raiders(I prefer Crusaders).

What point-level are you looking for?

While Space Wolves certainly do Razorspam very well, it is far from their only possible build.

The Rhinos vs. Pods debate basically breaks down to what else you want in the list. Pace Wolves are unique in that they can put Terminators in Drop Pods, which can be fun if they've got a CML and some Combi-meltas along with Logan Grimmnar. A bunch of S:9 shot falling from the sky will ruin anyones day. You can also put Dreads and of course Grey Hunters in them.

Rhinos can work, since Grey Hunters can bring two special weapons. Two Meltaguns or flamers can roll up and put the hurt on. Of course, the con here is that doing this means you are limited to Ld:8, which some folks don't mind.

Lastly, Space Wolves can probably do a horde of footslogging MEQs the best. They've got the cheapest Sv:3+ troops, who can take no Heavy weapons to slow them down. Add some ranged fire support from Long Fangs, and some line-breaker units like TWC, and you're good to go.

I'd personally go with Drop Pods. I like the fact that you can choose what units to drop in at the start of the game, so you can choose what'll do the most hurt at the start of the game.

The new Space Wolves 'dex is great because there are so many viable options, depending on the levels of play that you strive to do well in. I do not play in the top tiers, only amongst competitive (very ... very competitive) friends and a periodic tournament but the only one of the "spams" that you mention that I think are what I consider "needed" is Long Fangs. Why pay more for a tank (Predator) that can only shoot it's three guns at one target instead of pay less for 5 weapons you can shoot at two targets? The Long Fangs are the best-bang-for-your-buck heavy support choice that the Space Wolves get, IMO, so their "spam" is generally a good thing.

I use a Rhino-heavy list with a lot of 9xGH/1xWGL squads in them. A few drop pods to tie up the enemy as the Rhino's drive over but, overall, I don't use them. GH are a fantastic troop to hold the line with, as long as they have some fire support (e.g. Long Fangs/CML Wolfguard) I'm quite against utilizing Blood Claws except with a Wolf Priest inside of a LRC, which ends up being over 500 points ... an awful lot for a unit that mauls infantry well but that's about it, IMO.

So, to answer the question without being too long winded, yes I think you can build an effective army without focusing on TWC/WG/Razorback spam. I would say that LF spam is the best Heavy Support bang for your buck, though, that the SW are going to get.

*flips two pennies on the table*

SW are a bit odd. GW built them around the pack system. A group of small groups. Like said above they can add a hero to the group.

SM would promote a sarg. SW add wolfguard leader.

That stinks because they are designed for 11 men but the rhino only holds 10.

Grey Hunters are a good unit. They have get 2 special weapons, with 10 men you can get a free melta gun. The "Mark of the Wulfen" grants the trooper 1d6 + 1 attacks each turn with Rending. There is a lot of cool wargear. I like the Grey Hunters best.

I like where this is going...

Would you take a normal Runepriest or is Njal worth it?

What about Bjorn?

If you don't want to do the typical tournament build, a very effective army is to max out the fantastic grey hunters.

Taking 6 units of 9 grey hunters each with a MotW and a Wolf Guard with fist and combi weapon is cheap, effective in close ranged fire fights and assault. That is a great core to an army.

Then you can take a few units of support units to round things out. A unit of fangs, a unit of wolves, dreads, scouts, etc. and make a really good army. You could even get funky and take 30 wolf scouts or something on top of a hard core of Grey Hunters in Rhinos and do very well, although I think one each of T-Wolves, Fangs, and Scouts would work better.

Njal is tits, the guy underwhelmed me on paper until I saw him on the table top where he really kicks serious ass. I always take at least one Rune Priest as they are so versatile. Just the stock standard priest is great. I prefer JotWW and Storm Caller for my powers as they cover such a wide gamut of situations.

Bloodclaws are fun, but pretty sub-par compared to Grey Hunters. I have run them in a Crusader with pack leader and wolf priest and they are very effective in that role, but expensive. Again, Grey Hunters do the same thing better for the same cost. Blood claws should have been 13 points, IMO.

Wolves are a great army, you can do so much with them. Terminators, Pods, Mechanized, Assault force, Hero Hammer, shooty, wolves do it all and they do it well. But yes, building an army around 6 units of hunters in rhinos gives you a great start to a Wolf army you don't see so often.

i can testify that Njall is a beast. his special abilities are really annoying.


i fear him more then Grimnar because Logan can only buff the squad his is in. he does make Wolf Guard troops, but this isn't a huge deal for me.

Logan is annoying to be sure, but he isn't super hard to kill with massed gunfire. you can't ID him, but he doesn't have a ton of wounds either.

if Logan showed up with some MM longfangs in a drop pod THEN i would run away.

Any Thoughts on Bjorn?

with a plasma cannon and his high BS you can create a field of death for infantry, i find that no one wants to walk out of cover in his line of fire, so I've used him and longfangs/rifleman dread to create a no-go zone, giving my opponent less of the board to maneauver through. He works best in a shooty army in my experience, but I only used him for a little while, trying different stuff now. As it's been said, SW can do alot of different army types well

Grey Hunter spam seems little different than running an old SM codex list. 10 dudes in a rhino just waiting for their transport to get popped and the die to some kind of blast weapons. I have a hard time really accepting this kind of mediocracy as something very valid. Especially with the wolf guard, motw, and fist, these become pricy units, more so than razorback spam builds.

Bloodclaws become too much of a liability of bogging down the field in your own men or paying for a 250 pt transport on top of the 100 pt chaplain (equivalent) and then the guys... thats just an inoperable deathstar trudging around Yavin, waiting for some little kids (meltas, lucky long range shot, etc) to take down the shields and then the fleet (executioner, demolisher, submunission rounds, FC anything) to just overwhelm that thing and laugh as it goes down. I've seen it happen, then asked my opponent how many points he spent on it then I knew why I won that game.

I digress. You have to end up playing like a vanilla SM list, in the essence of bringing varying specialists to deal with different situations with extreme prejudice. It gets bad enough, in my mind, that you may as well play vanilla SM to just get a hold of those other choices like sternguard and crap.


The SW book overall is cool but you really gotta use the gifts they give you compared to vanilla and if you dont, you might as well go with the homemade vanilla, not the off brand.

Aduro wrote:Any Thoughts on Bjorn?

Bjorn is a gem. I built my tournament list around Bjorn and have won or placed top three in several GTs and RTTs with him as my linchpin. I wrote an extensive article on why he is so useful which you can read here if you are so inclined:

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2010/09/15/its-like-tactics-a-how-to-for-bjorn-by-reece-robbins/

As for Grey Hunters being pricey and just waiting to die in their Rhino? I am sorry, but that is just very, very wrong.

They are one of the, if not the most points efficient scoring units in the game. They are assault marines and tactical marines with counter assault, acute senses and ATSKNF all for 15 points. A squad of 10 in a Rhino with the proper gear is cheaper than the SM equivalent and better. You can also run a squad of 10 in a Rhino with two specials and MotW for 205, which is cheap as dirt. Grey Hunters are amazing units. They can fight, shoot, hold a position and the Rhino makes them very mobile. You really can't ask for more in terms of flexibility and customization.

Wolves are the best army in the game right now, IMO. They edge out IG and offer such a variety of builds, they really just shine as a book.

If you are having trouble formulating an idea of how you want to build or play your list, check out the article in my sig, it has helped a lot of players build and play better lists. You may find it useful.