Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Editted first post - cast your votes!

Here's the first list:


HQ

Hive Tyrant - 2 x twin-linked devourers, adrenal glands, old adversary & wings

Elite

2 x Hive Guard

2 x Hive Guard

2 x Hive Guard

Troops

Tervigon - adrenal glands, cluster mines & catalyst

Tervigon - adrenal glands, cluster mines & catalyst

10 x Termagants

10 x Termagants

20 x Hormagaunts - toxin sacs

20 x Hormagaunts - toxin sacs

Fast Attack

14 x Gargoyles - toxin sacs

14 x Gargoyles - toxin sacs

Heavy Support

Trygon - adrenal glands

Trygon - adrenal glands

Bonus for the first list is the Hive Tyrant is a little faster and a little stronger in assault, can tackle vehicles a bit easier as well. First list also has a lot more beasts in it and I don't need to buy as much models. Trygons in this list act as a speeding forward element so giving several threats in the form of double Trygons, Hive Tyrant and Gargoyles all coming at you. The Tervigons however mooch up supporting each other and keeping synapse at the rear. Maybe I could make one Trygon a Trygon Prime for additional front attack synapse? Means losing some Gargoyles and also the Tyrants adrenal glands, which isn't a problem on either, really.

And the second:

HQ

Hive Tyrant - 2 x twin-linked devourers, old adversary & wings

Elite

2 x Hive Guard

2 x Hive Guard

2 x Hive Guard

Troops

Tervigon - adrenal glands, cluster mines & catalyst

Tervigon - adrenal glands, cluster mines & catalyst

10 x Termagants

10 x Termagants

12 x Genestealers

12 x Genestealers

Fast Attack

14 x Gargoyles - toxin sacs

14 x Gargoyles - toxin sacs

Heavy Support

Carnifex - 2 x twin-linked devourers, adrenal glands & frag spines

Carnifex - 2 x twin-linked devourers, adrenal glands & frag spines

Second list the Tyrant is a little weaker thanks to lack of adrenal glands but it's nothing to cry home about. Carnifexes add more fire support and can still duke it out in combat although just not as good as the Trygons or as fast, what they can do is lumber up with the Tervigons giving support. The Genestealers can outflank and tackle annoying armour and enemy units.

First list has about 15 more little bugs than the second. Second list has more fire power but only a single fast moving element. Second list also has additional anti tank in the form of Genestealers and the Carnifexes ranged power which in combat can tackle tanks like the Trygons.

What boils down two is really two units which are the same in each list, Trygons and Hormagaunts or Carnifexes and Stealers? What about Trygons and 'Stealers or Carnifexes and Hormagaunts?

Let me know what you think, vote it up!

Tervigon adrenal glands, cluster mines & catalyst
Tervigon adrenal glands, cluster mines & catalyst
10 x Termagants
10 x Termagants
12 x Genestealers
12 x Genestealers

15 x Gargoyles toxin sacs
15 x Gargoyles toxin sacs

Carnifex 2 x twin-linked devourers & frag spines
Carnifex 2 x twin-linked devourers & frag spines

total: 2,001

Plan is to fly the Tyrant forward with Gargoyle swarm, hopefully by the time he gets into range the Hive Guard would have popped a transport for the Tyrant to assault - through the Gargoyles would fire at the unit inside to soften them up - then charge!

Tervigons move up the field spawning Termagants when needed and staying close to make use of the adrenal glands. Carnifexes would support them acting as some kind of 'Fex dakka bodyguard or something, lol. Btw Fexes have frag spines to make the use of that +2 initiative charge rule thingy ma bob when going into cover

Genestealers outflank and harass armour or enemy units. No toxin sacs I'm afriad because 1. points & 2. they will attack tanks mostly.

Haven't tried the list yet but I'm hoping that the Hive Guard and plenty of devourers shots should start doing over low armour - the tough armour will be dealt with the Carnifexes S9 charge along with the Tyrant and Tervigons.

What you think?

I like it. Very efficient use of Catalyst on the MCs.

I think that AG are waisted on the Tervagan. Sorry... i just think that TS would be more efficient. The TS is usefull against all non-vehicles. AG only works if they charge (meaning you need to basically start the termagants behind the tervagan to keep its bonus) and if you are against T5+ models... you will be hurt. T3 models get hurt more? I think not... You only loose damage against T2 models... aka grotz.

Vanilla genestealers usually work just fine. TS is if you want to obliterate your opponents.

You know that the fex's are I3 on the charge right? not I4. no AG on them hurts that.. meaning Marines ignore you.. and attacking first against guard usually doesn't do anything. Powerfists you are worried about? i can accept that.

Why adrenal glands on the Flyrant? Anti-land raider tactic? may want duel talons for that.. or are their a lot of I5 models you are worried about?

I think there are a few upgrades you gave your guys that i am not sure about.

Good call on AG for the carnifex.

2001 points is a rather odd points bracket...


Carnifexes definately need Adrenal Glands.

Drop the Genestealers, they just don't fit in at all. Consider using the extra points to bulk out the Termagaunt broods, and prehaps give them Devourers.

Branderic wrote:I like it. Very efficient use of Catalyst on the MCs.

Thanks

wisdomseyes1 wrote:I think that AG are waisted on the Tervagan. Sorry... i just think that TS would be more efficient. The TS is usefull against all non-vehicles. AG only works if they charge (meaning you need to basically start the termagants behind the tervagan to keep its bonus) and if you are against T5+ models... you will be hurt. T3 models get hurt more? I think not... You only loose damage against T2 models... aka grotz.

Vanilla genestealers usually work just fine. TS is if you want to obliterate your opponents.

You know that the fex's are I3 on the charge right? not I4. no AG on them hurts that.. meaning Marines ignore you.. and attacking first against guard usually doesn't do anything. Powerfists you are worried about? i can accept that.

Why adrenal glands on the Flyrant? Anti-land raider tactic? may want duel talons for that.. or are their a lot of I5 models you are worried about?

I think there are a few upgrades you gave your guys that i am not sure about.

Toxin sacs are actually worse on the Tervigon is wounds on a 3+ against <T4, with toxin sacs it's 4+ with re-rolls. Adrenal glands makes this beast S6 which now wounds on a 2+ and with Termagants makes them 4+ against T4 (same as poison without re-rolls though) and strike first. Adrenal glands are clearly the winner out of the two.

Yes I know Fexes are I3 on the charge, that's why I wanted adrenal glands on them for.

Glands on the Tyrant was just because I had them - I guess I could give them to a Carnifex and ditch some points somewhere to get glands else where. Btw Tyrant doesn't need dual talons as got old adversary

Squigsquasher wrote:2001 points is a rather odd points bracket...


Carnifexes definately need Adrenal Glands.

Drop the Genestealers, they just don't fit in at all. Consider using the extra points to bulk out the Termagaunt broods, and prehaps give them Devourers.

It's obivously a 2000 point list and not 2001, I'm just a point over that's all which isn't really a problem.

Yup I think I do need glands on the Fexes.

Stealers do fit in. They outflank as I said and tackle armour and enemy units. No point investing in Termagant broods when I get them for free. >

Ok, fair enough about the Genestealers. I would just take Devlgaunts, as they have OUTRAGEOUSLY effective weapons. Plus, Tervigon spawning can be unpredictable.

If you find the points, give the 'stealers Adrenal Glands. S5 Rending attacks are terrifying!

And in all honesty, I probably wouldn't mind facing that list with a 2000 point army. After all, 1 point over is no big deal. I just thought I'd mention it, as I am obsessed with order.

You're not really getting what the Genestealers are for are you? The Stealers outflank and assault vehicles with rending, when they rend they will auto glance majority of vehicles being armour 10. Devilgaunts cannot do this so not a good exchange. Devilgaunts are good for anti troop, not anti armour.

S5 makes not difference to rending, you still need a 6+ to score rending hit and Stealers initative is 6 so high enough. If Stealers want anything it's toxin sacs which gives re-rolls to hit which means more rending wounds


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I did a test with the Fex list last night against Blood Angel mech

I fonud double devs on the Tyrant didn't do a lot, though the pesky Librarian kept making the shield cover saves :( . The Tyrant with Gargoyles had a lot longer life span making cover saves several times.

Hive Guard didn't perform massively well, but they're staying as I need anti tank. In other times they've reaped havoc.

Tervigons did well giving monstrous creature saturation, feel no pain and more synapse. With adrenal glands they could tackle armour very well.

Termagants using the glands did some damage in combat wiping out a Assault Squad or giving them some serious damage.

Genestealers come in and did fething nothing. One squad outflanked behind two Razorbacks and failed to reach assault, next turn it was shot to bits and then failed morale and ran off. The other squad outflanked on the wrong side of the table far away from the action. I know what Genestealers can do and I know it was just bad luck they didn't do anything. I'm thinking perhaps min squads as suicide units just to outflank and rip a tank to pieces, it's anti tank what I need really. Then when they die or outflank on the wrong table side it's not a huge loss of points.

Gargoyles did well as a bullet shield and also in combat thanks to the Tyrants old adversary bonus which give them plenty of auto wounds from the blinding venom rule. I did find one unit covering the Tyrant would get hammered leaving the Tyrant exposed, so combining both units or just having one bigger unit would be fine.

Carnifexes along with Tervigons were the test stars of the ist and unfortunately they failed. They didn't do a huge amount, one died to plasma and the other died in combat against 5 Assault Marines which it failed to wipe out - admittly it was lucky the power weapon got two 6's to wound and steal the Fexes last wounds. Through out the game they managed to stun a Razorback, pop a Razorback and then kill a few Marines that was it. I'm not that massively impressed and many times I wished I had the Trygons as they could have made plenty of assaults and cleared house.

The Tyranids won the game, which was spearhead and objectives which plays to their strengths. The list is definately a improvement of my old one but what I need is fast anti tank and ranged anti tank - the Hive Guard have got the ranged cover so I need close up. Trygons can do close up and will act as a second flank attack along with the Tyrant and Gargoyles instead of the Tyrant going it alone. I'm thinking a small unit of Raveners just to harass unit, they have 5 attacks each on the charge with a possible 24" charge range, of course they'd have rending claws. I'm still thinking Genestealers to outflank and tackle enemy armour or infantry, at least just to tie things up.

Here's a new possible list:

HQ

Hive Tyrant 2 x twin-linked devourers, adrenal glands, old adversary & wings

Elite

2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard

Troops

Tervigon adrenal glands, stinger salvo & catalyst
Tervigon adrenal glands, stinger salvo & catalyst
10 x Termagants
10 x Termagants
7 x Genestealers
7 x Genestealers

Fast Attack

20 x Gargoyles toxin sacs
4 x Raveners rending claws

Heavy Support

Trygon Prime adrenal glands
Trygon adrenal glands