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I want to get Lysander for my IF, in a unit of standard terminators, but does anyone know if the bolter drill re-rolls to hit apply to storm bolters?
Help appreciated.

It's clearly stated in the bolter drill description on page 91 of the current SM codex. We can't give out rules here but I think you'll be happy if you read through that little piece of text even once.

Ah. Misread it, sorry. Will read more carefully in future.

don't put him in a PF/SB TDA squad!!! they die! TH/SS TDA squad...PF or TH? TH is better. SB or SS? SS is better. more protection and damage.
or sternguard.

Saw a guy run him with a 10 man squad of PF/SB termies w/ 2 cyclone's was actually alot of fire power

them with 10 TH/SS termies can kill anything. I had hima and 5 TH/SS termies kill an entire 2000 point 'nid list.
60 gaunts
10 rippers
2 carnifexes
2 hive guard
trygon
10 genestealers
hive tyrant
2 tyrant guard
warrior prime
5 warriors
2 zoanthropes.
look me in the screen and tell me that PF/SB termies can survive that, let alone kill that.

shrike wrote:them with 10 TH/SS termies can kill anything. I had hima and 5 TH/SS termies kill an entire 2000 point 'nid list.
60 gaunts
10 rippers
2 carnifexes
2 hive guard
trygon
10 genestealers
hive tyrant
2 tyrant guard
warrior prime
5 warriors
2 zoanthropes.
look me in the screen and tell me that PF/SB termies can survive that, let alone kill that.

I call BS on this one. That said, TH&SS termies ARE better than tactical termies. However, most of the time they do just fine by themselves no no point in taking a 200pts beat stick with them. Lysander and Sternguard can be pretty neat tho.

In this "BS" instance, that "beatstick" kept them alive.

How did he achieve that?

taking the wounds that ID, and rolling one hell of a lot of 3's. he had 4 wounds- 1 termie and him left. (on one wound).

Why would it matter if he took ID wounds? termies are 1 wound...but most importantly you dont allcolate wounds between ICs and the other squad in HtH.
Anyway, I still call massive BS

Ohwell enough of the OT...

were you there? no. judge not. I claim not BS, but whatever you say so...

Lysander took the ID wounds, as he has Eternal Warrior.

tedurur wrote:Why would it matter if he took ID wounds? termies are 1 wound...but most importantly you dont allcolate wounds between ICs and the other squad in HtH.
Anyway, I still call massive BS

Ohwell enough of the OT...

The point being that Lysander, by virtue of having Eternal Warrior, could be used to soak wounds which would otherwise risk killing a whole terminator. It allowed the unit to keep more models alive longer.

I also don't see the point in "calling BS". Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. But there's no reason to assume not; if one poster says it did, the courteous thing to do is take him at his word. Check out any of the recurring "craziest thing that ever happened in a game" threads which periodically crop up here and (I expect) on every other 40k forum. People play a lot of games and sometimes crazy stuff happens

I think the point you're trying to make is that it's an unusual event, and anecdotal evidence (a thing happening one time) is not good evidence that an idea is always a good one, or that a given tactic will always work.

thank you for clearing this up. The point is, lysander functions better in TH/SS termies than PF/SB termies. They have done a lot for me, and are real game-winners (kiling deathstar units, and earning lots of KP's).

I think it's obvious that it's an extremely deadly unit. It's a Deathstar itself.

I would be concerned that a canny opponent would deliberately minimize the number of targets which it can engage during the game, reducing its impact significantly.

Tactical Terminators have the advantage of being able to do significant damage with shooting in the first 2-3 turns of the game when the TH/SS termies may not be able to assault anything.

And of course, there's always the option of attaching him to Sternguard, which makes them extra deadly with their special ammo, and gives the enemy a serious deterrent to assaulting the SG.

yep, posted that

Quite frankly that 10 man squad isnt getting anywhere near a unit i dont want it to. Unless its DSing in, by the time it gets to me I will be moving away, ignoring it.

they will be DSing. a DP will DS in empty, equipped with a locator beacon, and then pow. you have 10 TH/SS termies and lysander on you.

No, no i dont. That DP is gone in one turn - I have LOTS to take it out. Or, it is so far out that I can still ignore it.

try shooting it when lysander DS's in the same turn.

I still can't see how EW helps with a group of 1 W terminators and how putting ID wounds on him makes any difference at all.

How are you doing that?

He cannot DS first turn. Period.

You cannot DS the pod in and then, in the same turn use its locator beacon to DS Lysander in - as the rules for Locator SPECIFICALLY state it must be *already* on the table when you start to DS units - so it HAS to be on the table for one turn.

calypso2ts wrote:I still can't see how EW helps with a group of 1 W terminators and how putting ID wounds on him makes any difference at all.

It helps by taking a wound that would normally kill a model without EW. For example a lascannon is fired at the squad, instead of running the risk of losing a terminator, take the wound on Lysander since it does not kill him. By doing this, it does not diminsh lysander's abilities in CC at all, but it does keep the full combat abilities of the unit safe because you did not lose a model. Basically it allows you to keep wounds from cropping up on terminators and losing models.

While calling it "BS" might not be the most subtle thing I think its rather important to not let new players get fooled by some hyperbole statment. That way they wont be as disappointed when they start playing and notice that TH&SS termies and Lysander isnt infact invincible

That list contains more than 100 wounds (even when conidering multi wound models with T>6 as single wound models). Seeing as how the Terminators will always strike last I find it rather (extremely^100) unlikely that such an event as the above actually took place.

Yes lysander took the ID wounds. What difference does that make? Terminators are 1W so that setup has will need to loose 9 wounds before it is gone no matter how you allocate them. An ID wound is in that aspect no different then for instance a wound from a plasma gun.

That said It is obviously better to take shooting attacks on lysander but for the Termies to be able to kill all those Tyranids hed have to be in CC where you wouldnt allocate wounds in the same way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lone Dragoon wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:I still can't see how EW helps with a group of 1 W terminators and how putting ID wounds on him makes any difference at all.

It helps by taking a wound that would normally kill a model without EW. For example a lascannon is fired at the squad, instead of running the risk of losing a terminator, take the wound on Lysander since it does not kill him. By doing this, it does not diminsh lysander's abilities in CC at all, but it does keep the full combat abilities of the unit safe because you did not lose a model. Basically it allows you to keep wounds from cropping up on terminators and losing models.

Yes but putting a wound from a plasma gun on Lysander will have the same effect. Whether its and ID wound or not is absolutly pointless.

Anyway, this is absolutly my last post in this thread since its very much OT and the OPs question has already been answered.

It IS true, and like I said I rolled a lot of 3's. they had almost no shooting attacks, apart from the 2 hive guard.

tedurur wrote:

Lone Dragoon wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:I still can't see how EW helps with a group of 1 W terminators and how putting ID wounds on him makes any difference at all.

It helps by taking a wound that would normally kill a model without EW. For example a lascannon is fired at the squad, instead of running the risk of losing a terminator, take the wound on Lysander since it does not kill him. By doing this, it does not diminsh lysander's abilities in CC at all, but it does keep the full combat abilities of the unit safe because you did not lose a model. Basically it allows you to keep wounds from cropping up on terminators and losing models.

Yes but putting a wound from a plasma gun on Lysander will have the same effect. Whether its and ID wound or not is absolutly pointless.

It's something you can do more safely with Lysander than you can with other SM characters, specifically because he has EW. Without EW, you wouldn't want to risk losing your character to ID, so you'd allocate hits to regular terminators earlier, causing the squad to degrade faster.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tedurur wrote:

Lone Dragoon wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:I still can't see how EW helps with a group of 1 W terminators and how putting ID wounds on him makes any difference at all.

It helps by taking a wound that would normally kill a model without EW. For example a lascannon is fired at the squad, instead of running the risk of losing a terminator, take the wound on Lysander since it does not kill him. By doing this, it does not diminsh lysander's abilities in CC at all, but it does keep the full combat abilities of the unit safe because you did not lose a model. Basically it allows you to keep wounds from cropping up on terminators and losing models.

Yes but putting a wound from a plasma gun on Lysander will have the same effect. Whether its and ID wound or not is absolutly pointless.

On Lysander no it doesn't matter, but I'd dare anyone to try putting that ID hit on a "cheaper" captain choice as they do not have EW. That's the difference between EW and not having it. You don't have it you lose either your 200 point model, or a 40 point model. It's more the arguement of take EW or not rather than putting the ID wound on a single wound model.

the real point is that when you have Lysander and 10(or even 5) Th/SS Termies and you receive a Krak missile hit(or Meltagun hit) you allocate that ID wound to Lysander so you will not lose any models to that wound, whether Lysander fails his save or not.

Any time you get Shot at by Armor ignoring ID weapons you do the same... up until lysander is left with 1 wound, then you drop those wounds on the termies.

Just another not in CC(where you want this little deathstar) you cannot allocate in this manner; lysander is his own unit during the combats.