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Yo all
I would like to know your opinions about the (new) forgeworld Land Raider Achilles Kit
I am thinking of maybe bying one to include in my army
Personally I think he cots a lot of points and doesn't have mch transport capacity (only six models so no termies at all)
BUT he has kick-ass armour and a nice gun.. so what do you think?

for the rules visit => http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/a/achilles.pdf

Personally, I would not use it. However, it could be very useful in Apoc. I suppose you could have a techmarine in it for on the go repair.

Well, my first recommendation would be to wait till its published in IA 10 to see the final version of its rules.

Second recommendation, is that it full fills an important but limited role in specific armies, so if you think it fits then it is probably underpriced for what it brings to the table.

Third, make sure the people you play with are alright with you using Forgeworld/IA rules.

Lastly, this doesn't belong in the forum. Maybe tactics instead?

forum sais "Want to discuss how a current 40K rule could be improved? Also the place to discuss 40K rules of your own and GW experimental 40K rules." definetly in it's place here I suppose..

but is he worth his points or overprized.. 60" range ok but wich battlefield is big enough to shoot that? I mean normal battles no apoc..

the weapons loadout is fair. A TFC (without techmarine) is 50 points, and if we replace the LCs with MMs it's 300 points. But it's just too damn hard for some armies to crack. eldar and DE rely on lance and melta- other than grav-tanks, what can kill it? and even if you have 3 grav tanks- 2 hit, 0.6 pen, 0.1 destroys. to kill it you need to be firing a grav tanks for 9 turns. I have played against eldar 5 times and only once have they had a grav-tank. this thing is too hard. What about SoB? they rely on meltas. someone worked out that if they had 3 immolators, it would take 10 turns to kill. That thing takes 14 rounds of ghazghkull combat to kill.

A TFC without Techmarine is 25 points!

techmarine- 50pts
TFC and techmarine- 100pts
100-50=50.

He also gets the servo harness which is +25.

Jack

Exactly what Jack said. 100-75=25.

Yeah, my read on the Achilles is that minus its special Armour rules its basically a 235 Land Raider with Extra Armour (+15), as it loses a lot of its value as a transport for very arguable firepower change.

Jack

so it will more be used as a real tank than an transport then.. fair enough XD

From what it looks like, this is a "fluff" LR in that it can take a ton of abuse and bring the pain. Definitely not something I would play against in a normal game (some people are writing general all comers list with them) but for apoc would be more than fine to play against.

can i use him with his rules in a tournament??

It depends on the TO if the rules can be used or not. Generally they'd say no though.

ah..

I would love to use one of these in a regular game. TFC are devastating on their own. Now give it AV 14 all around and iirc it basically has living metal, with -1 to all damage rolls?!?
Yes yes please. That said I would not like to be on the other side of that thing, i believe it is unbalanced in a normal game as without str D it's simply too hard to kill.

to put it in perspective, it would take 14 rounds of 'thraka CC to kill, or 3 immolators 10 turns, or a wave serpent 10 turns, as I have already mentioned. Lysander has a decent chance (more than ghaz). It would take lysander 3 turns. (4 attacks, 3 hit, 1 penetrates, one in 3 chance of destroying (his +1 to damage charts cancels the achilles -1 to damage). To him it's just like ghaz against a normal LR.

Personally I'd suggest letting folks play it at 250 without the special rule (or even 235 with no extra armor) if the special rule bugs you.

Its too nice a model to not get used

Jack

but after all i still find him expensive for what he brings to the table.. IF you're allowed to let hem on the table anyway..

I would refuse to play it unless the -1 on damage is dropped. This shouldn't be in proposed rules, as you haven't proposed any rules, just talked about an upcomng release. Should either be in general or news and rumours.

is not upcoming.. he's already for sale with rules..

It wasn't when I posted it.
and I already did a thread exactly the same as this...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/329058.page

ooow i see XD

How to tackle with orks?

I've half a mind to use deff-rolla'd battlewagons as guided missiles.

I have tested this with it's normal points, and with out the insanely stupid armor rule in a couple of games. We also gave it assault ramps which are absent on it.

I loaded it up with a plasma command squad and hit for center of the board. With PoMS, the melta's still had their uses while the cannon blasted orcs. It never came up, but the subteranium blasts can be fired as a defensive weapon if you are going combat speed.

Basically, at 300 points I like it if you ditch the invulnerable armor and add the assault ramps back. And I really like the model..
It can't field termies, but a command squad or some vanguard vets would love it.

Veldrain wrote:I have tested this with it's normal points, and with out the insanely stupid armor rule in a couple of games. We also gave it assault ramps which are absent on it.

I loaded it up with a plasma command squad and hit for center of the board. With PoMS, the melta's still had their uses while the cannon blasted orcs. It never came up, but the subteranium blasts can be fired as a defensive weapon if you are going combat speed.

Basically, at 300 points I like it if you ditch the invulnerable armor and add the assault ramps back. And I really like the model..
It can't field termies, but a command squad or some vanguard vets would love it.

make your own varient- the same, but assault ramp and no invincible armour.
thanks for the review.

AND MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

Seeing as it's called the 'Achilles' i say it's rear armour should be 12 or something. Give it a weakness.

Thing is about the achilles, is it has no weakness.
AV 14/14/14, -1 on the damage chart, immune to lance and melta- DE and eldar (apart from tanks) have nothing for it!

Maybe every face but the rear should get those (insane) abilities. Or it is not allowed the name achilles. Should just call it the Land raider No-blow-up-illes

Perkustin wrote:Should just call it the Land raider No-blow-up-illes

most-people-play-marines-so-our-tanks-are-invincible-and-cannot-blow-up-illes.
Or did I just kill it?