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Very recently our local gamestore held a tournment event for warhammer 40k.
1500 points , 4 prizes Best overall , Best General , Best Appearance , Best sportsmanship
With my army half fisnihed Overall was out of the question for me so i rigged up to get best general.

I built 1500 points with this in mind -
I have a solid 1250 list, so i looked as what it was missing and used the extra 250 to get it the tools id need.
I swore and oath to not build a fierce list that requires no skill.
I swore not to use lash.

After the tournament i finished second overall and second best general. I made a dumb mistake round 4 that otherwise would have had that general spot for myself.
Heres the list.

Hq -
Chaos lord
Lightning claws
mark of khorne



Troop -
Chaos space marines - x9
2x melta
banner of chaos glory
Aspiring champion with a Pfist
Rhino


Troop - Chaos space marines - x9
2x melta
Banner of chaos glory
Aspiring champion with Pfist
Rhino

Troop - Chaos space marines - x10
plasma x2
banner of chaos flory
rhino w/ combi flamer

Troop - Khorne berzerkers x8
Champion with a Pfist
rhino w/extra armor

Heavy support - vindicator
Daemonic possession

Heavy support - obli's x2


The points are a bit give or take due to the fact i left the list outside in the car.
Please keep my oaths in mind before commenting.

Comment away!

Four troop units is too much.
Drop one CSM squad and add some more HS goodies.

I disagree. Having 3 scoring units at 1500 is a disadvantage in my eyes. Having the 4 solid scoring units keeps my in the objective game.

Chaos Lord = cool.

Chosen champion isn't required, why pay 10 points extra just to get a power fist? Only time you need Champions is to get a Greater Daemon.

Berzekers are anti troop, so a power weapon would be better with 5 S5 I5 attacks on the charge - evil! You want ot tackle tanks use a unit for tackling tanks or just mass S5 attacks should penetrate with sheer numbers.

Switch the Vindicator to Obliterators to give more long range support, you need it and the Vindicator won't get singled out. Or take two Vindicators as tanks should always come in pairs and a single Vindicator will just get picked on.

I prefer the Pfist on berzerkers because it allows me to deal with armor when it shows up and i also prefer killing marines on 2+.

Mercer has a good point about the HS. If i were you, i would double up rather than having one of each.

Ehhh
I like having both. simply because each has a job.
doubling up vindicators doesnt help the problem of them getting picked on , all vindicators do , it comes down to keeping cover saves and using front armour 13.
and having 2 squads of obis is just too damn expensive

.

take vindicators in pairs or not at all, that thing will be dead by turn two at least unless your opponent is a fewl. apart from obliterators, you have to double up on any hvy support or they will be singled out and annihilated. aside from that it looks solid

Looks like a fun, reasonably competitive list. I disagree that any chaos list "requires no skill"; honestly the book's a little behind the top books at this point, and I have fewer objections to "fierce" lists from books which are not already at the top of the heap. The Chaos Lord is an obvious choice not to take the best possible HQ, but he's reasonably deadly and cost effective.

Regarding doubling up the HS, in general it's a good principle, but I wouldn't say it's mandatory. Remember that this is only 1500pts and the amount of heavy weapons is fewer compared to 1750 or 2000. And he's also got 4 Rhinos coming forward which are going to demand attention from enemy guns. It can even be okay at larger points sizes. I went Havocs, Vindi, Oblits at both this year's and last year's Adepticon Championships, ending up 4th and 6th Overall. It can be advantageous in getting better appearance scores too, to add to the visual variety in your force.

List comes up to 1428, doing the math in my head. Probably missing something. I'd be tempted to pop in a unit of 5 lesser daemons, purely to summon off a Rhino and go hold an objective far from the enemy. This allows you to use all four Rhinos aggressively in Capture & Control or Seize Ground, as opposed to having to leave one behind to hold the home objective.

It was originally two zerker squads and two CSM's squads but i dropped the zerkers for a 3rd CSM's and i think lesser daemons was where i was heading at the time.

TL Shaggy wrote:I prefer the Pfist on berzerkers because it allows me to deal with armor when it shows up and i also prefer killing marines on 2+.

Berzerkers can tackle armour by penetrating on a 6+ and have weight of attacks. You wound Marines on a 3+ with a power weapon and get more attacks. Power weapon is better, s9 isn't much benefit over S8.

Its also for big bugs.
Dreadnoughts
vehicles with RA 11 instant deathing t4 models

Tyranid monstrous creatures have multiple wounds, so I wouldn't get too asure of your self and Dreadnoughts are armour 12-13 so glancing on 13 on 4+ and glancing 3+ on a normal Dreadnought, after combat and if you're still locked the fist will have problems.

you're overkilling the troop choices. berzerkers in my humble opinion really arent worth their points. much less their champion just because of a pfist. i would remove it, add one more csm to another squad so that he can take a lascannon and deliver some punches.

agree like the rest to get 2 vindis. if you keep them apart you will be able to spread their fire out. if it's my list i most prob would have went for 2 daemon princes to eat everythin in CC and let my PMs capture objective while my CSM shoot things down from afar. while my oblits deepstrike to take the most cost-worthy thing before dying. heh.

my thoughts on your list:
You have 4 meltaguns, a vindicator and 2 obliterators for busting armour, but only 2 obliterators to bust it at any range! I say drop the vindicator and get 2 more oblits for this reason....the pie plate from the vindicator is good but would be better if there were two and I believe that you would benefit far more from the versatility of 2 more oblits than the limited range of the vindicators!

If you are planning on rushing your rhinos up you should go ahead and pay 10 points for combi-meltas on all of them. it's more rapid fire vs hordes and a nice lil bit of AT too!

30 marines are definately MORE than plenty at 1500 points, most people field under 20. So you could free up some points to add say, another Hq or maybe add a small squad of chosen with 5 plasmas in a rhino...would help with the MC issuse as well as a TEQ killer.

Good luck

Gotta agree that you look a little heavy on troops and light on ranged firepower. Obviously you did something right if you got second at your tournament, but I'd have thought a good DE army would destroy you. Shoot your oblits, run around and de-mech you, then mop up what's left.

ionsel wrote:you're overkilling the troop choices. berzerkers in my humble opinion really arent worth their points. much less their champion just because of a pfist. i would remove it, add one more csm to another squad so that he can take a lascannon and deliver some punches.

Berzerkers are the BEST. out of the box. No upgrade killing unit in the game. hands down. You can buy them in a squad and give them a rhino and they will kill almost anything they touch. Numerous ammounts of attacks , high WS , furious charge , and the 3+ save is nice too. One squad in the right place is my alphastrike unit.

You have 4 meltaguns, a vindicator and 2 obliterators for busting armour, but only 2 obliterators to bust it at any range! I say drop the vindicator and get 2 more oblits for this reason....the pie plate from the vindicator is good but would be better if there were two and I believe that you would benefit far more from the versatility of 2 more oblits than the limited range of the vindicators!

4 meltas is a solid number. I am considering combi meltas on the champions for redundancy. I choose to take one vindi and one obi squad because each has a job to do and each does it very well. Investing 300 points in 4 obis is a bit much for models instant deathed by a lascannon. With relentless i can keep my 2 in cover and walk out to shoot all the while the squad is 150 points and if they get shot they effectively neutralize a lascannon and they offer some of chaos's only long range fire support.

If you are planning on rushing your rhinos up you should go ahead and pay 10 points for combi-meltas on all of them. it's more rapid fire vs hordes and a nice lil bit of AT too!

30 marines are definately MORE than plenty at 1500 points, most people field under 20. So you could free up some points to add say, another Hq or maybe add a small squad of chosen with 5 plasmas in a rhino...would help with the MC issuse as well as a TEQ killer.

Combi meltas will only trick a player once. I agree they give the rhinos another job to do and im not against it.
20 marines at 1500? No. Scoring units win the game. THE game. Having 20 marines to score is terrible. they will die. people that know what theyre doing will see this and kill them with all theyve got.
i have 4 scoring units at 1500. 5 now that i added SLD. Thats 40 scoring units in power armor that will be tough to break down.





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