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I've ended up with 101 warm bodies with 21 special weapons and 4 light tanks at 1,500 points. I'm not sure if it's durable enough, though - especially the tanks. Does anyone have experience with Hellhounds and know how likely they are to survive long enough for a shot or two of its inferno cannon?

Company Command Squad - 70 points
Two Meltaguns.

Infantry Platoon - 365 points
Platoon Command Squad
Two Meltaguns.
Combined Infantry
Twenty Guardsmen, Two Meltabombs, Two Plasma Guns, Commissar, Power Weapon.
Special Weapons Squads
Twelve Guardsmen, Six Meltaguns.

Infantry Platoon - 365 points
Platoon Command Squad
One Heavy Flamer.
Combined Infantry
Twenty Guardsmen, Two Meltabombs, Two Plasma Guns, Commissar, Power Weapon.
Special Weapons Squads
Twelve Guardsmen, Four Flamers, Two Demolition Charges.

Penal Legionnaires - 80
Penal Legionnaires - 80

Fast Attack - 290 points
Hellhound . . . Dozer Blade, Smoke Launchers
Hellhound . . . Dozer Blade, Smoke Launchers

Heavy Support - 250
Basilisk . . .
Basilisk . . .

I like the concept. I don't like the penal legionnaires. They're only adding more anti-infantry to a list SWIMMING in anti-infantry.

I'd drop both squads in order to help your anti-tank situation. One of them could be spent on passing out more meltaguns to your officers, while the other could be used for a plasma SWS, or some stormies or something.

Pretty solid, but you really need some long range AT firepower that can pop som tanks on turn one. Drop the penal legions as Ailaros said, drop one of each special weapon squads and take a Vendetta and a melta vet squad, replace the HF in the platoon command squad for 4 GLs and add 2 more meltas to the company command and then replace one basilik for a vanilla russ.

Another round of support for Ailaros, the penal troops aren't really adding much to the list. However, I'm a fluff over function kind of guy so if you think it makes sense in your army then go for it. I'd also agree with adding a little bit of AV14 to your list, just to give something for their anti-tank to worry about.

Well, to be honest, this list lacks in many areas. Just trying to help.

Apart from what Ailaros said.

0. What I'd drop in order to get points to take what I offer would be:
dozer blades, basilisksx2, special weapons squad with meltas, Penals (unreliable, there are better alternatives). If it's an all comers list - maybe 1 hellhound too.

1. Anti-AV14 is seriously lacking, even if you have meltaguns. The problem is range. Meltaguns on feet on t3 guys with 5+ save ain't gonna live long enough to do anything. You need protection and/or mobility, and Chimera provides both. There's a reason why everybody and their aunt Mary runs Chimeltas nowdays, and it's not only because of FOTM. Also, if you take 2 meltas, 2 more BS4 vets are going to waste their BS with lasguns. I'd take 4 for HQ.

Now if you don't want or don't have Chimeras, it's melta stormtroopers all the way. They can deepstrike, outflank, whatever, which gives you so needed mobility. Take them in squads of 5 with maxed meltaguns.

And one more rather good option is multimelta on hellhounds.

I myself in casual games run 2x vets with melta in chimeras and 1 hellhound with multimelta in 1.5k pts.

2. Long range anti-light-tank is lacking even more. Except for the Bassies which are extremely unreliable, you have no way to kill transports (i.e. Rhinos) on turn 1-2. Which means they are gonna get close and unload their content into your face. Close combat is not something Guardsmen likes...

3. Special weapons squad with Demo. Throwing demo suitcase is nice and cool, but it's 6''. Lack of mobility again. There are two ways to deliver the suitcase where it's needed, namely deepstrike (Marbo) and Valkyrie/Vendetta. Chimera is unreliable due to lack of speed for the task. Footslogging hardly works.

4. Basilisk. It's a shame that such a great model isn't that good. 36'' minimum range for indirect fire is huge. With direct fire, enemy can see you too, and we are talking about AV12 front in a list with not so many other AV to shoot at. It will die. Simple autocannon or missile launcher can take it down from a range. They can work, but they are extremely unreliable.

5. PCS with a heavy flamer... it's better to take 4x regular flamers for that task.

6. Infantry squads with meltabombs... not sure if it works. You see no tank is gonna get close to them, opponent is just gonna shoot them down. The squads are not a threat from range so they'll likely get ignored. You will need to chase tanks yourself, which is not an easy task with footsloggers. And this leaves your bassies unprotected from deepstrikers, etc. It's better to give your squads long range weapons and deploy them around bassilisks (if you gonna keep bassies).

7. As for your original question, they are gonna survive long enough to shoot maybe once or twice and thats about it. The problem is in their AV and the lack of more tanks in your army. Once basilisks are dealt with, all those numerous missile launchers, lances, etc. are gonna shoot at hellhounds, as simple as that.

8. Things you need: autocannons/lascannons for long range anti-tank (best: autocannons in infantry squads, vendettas with lascannons), meltas in chimeras/multimeltas for close range anti heavy tank, more long range firepower (LR Battle tank, autocannons, bassies - already in your list but not the best choice, manticore, hydras...), close range anti-uber-infantry (plasma guns, LR Demolisher), mobility & protection (chimeras, valkyries, vendettas). Guard is a shooting army, it must abuse every turn it's allowed to shoot, while your army apart from bassies can do something only when close n personal, which is a recipe for disaster. As a general rule of thumb, the more shots weapon has, the better it fits infantry squads (autocannon). The less shots and the better power - the more it fits for Veterans/Stormtroopers. This is due to BS3 vs BS4, you want to use everything to its fullest. The lower BS the more shots you need to make it work. I.e. CCS with 4x Plasmas will get 4-8x BS4 plasma shots, while 1 plasma in Infantry Squad will get 1-2x BS3 shot. 4 squads with 1 plasma each may not even get to shoot at the same target due to size and range. Which is more reliable?

9. Then again, actually playing and seeing is far better than listening to guys in forums Maybe the list will work for you against your opponents. And if it won't, maybe you will see better what it lacks Maybe I just failed to see your strategy plan or something. However if you are going yet to buy models based on this list, I really don't recommend it.

while sej brings up many key factors, always remember that its how you play it and how you want to play it, i run necrons with no monolith or god in my 2K point list and my opponents are always pulling there hair out trying to phase me while i hop onto objectives. forum guru's do know quite a bit but it will always come down to your play style and how you enjoy it.

nsdocholiday wrote:while sej brings up many key factors, always remember that its how you play it and how you want to play it, i run necrons with no monolith or god in my 2K point list and my opponents are always pulling there hair out trying to phase me while i hop onto objectives. forum guru's do know quite a bit but it will always come down to your play style and how you enjoy it.

Hehe thats ofcourse very true (and, p.s., I don't claim to be Guru or nowhere near pro level - things I listed are just basics IMO). It's just that when I see a guy posting list I assume he needs advice from a competitiveness perspective. Even if you have the list based on fluff or models you like or playstyle you like, it never hurts to know the lists advantages and disadvantages better. I was not trying to make his list a copy of mines or something, hence only general advices, no specific "you must take that or you lose".

Nice to see you playing Necrons. In my parts almost everybody gave them up or plays unofficial fanmade codex.

Some ideas:

Get some storm troopers with melta guns. You can use them to make pesky armour disappear.

Give Al rahem a try on one of those platoons, outflanking those melta guns is another good idea.

Hellhounds are glorious, its a pity they compete with vendettas, because I can't recommend them enough. 12 on the front and sides is plenty survivable and they can really put the hurt on certain foes.

How do?

nsdocholiday and Sejanus are right it all comes down to how you want to play.

While I disagree with sejanus about the need for chimera's I do think he's right about there being gaps in the army.

Personally i'd drop the SWS all of them and use the points to bulk up the 20 man blobs you have already. I also would't run plasma on normal guards men. In my experience they are nearly as likely to kill themselves as they are the enemy. Melta's on foot can survive but you need bodies and to run like mad.

Hellhounds are cool, last couple of times I ran mine I had a lot of sucess with them. I ran them with MM, I know it king of breaks the cardinal rule about mixing function, but it worked for what i wanted them to do. I kept them in reserve (whether on the board or off) and used them as trouble shooters. Purely reactionary. YMMV. You will nearly always get at least one round of shooting with them as they have a 24" + template attack range. Thing is to remember nothing survives long, if someone wants one of your units dead bad enough it's usaully going to happen so don't worry to much.

I love bassies mine have always done well for me, yeah once or twice stuff has gone really wrong e.g scatter onto my own men but hey. 36" isn't that bad if you corner up and play on a 6x4 table. Yeah AV 12 ain't brillaint but if they are shooting you bassies they are not shooting your HH.

I've not used penal legions but i'm not convinced by them, i'd rather take al'rahem and outflank a whole platoon or use sct sentinels.

Like Sejanus said though playing is the best way to learn if a list is good. However I diagree with him again there is nothing on the list that would be a mistake to buy, it mainly infantry and infantry are alway useful. The bassies might be what he's talking about as some people but don't like them but I love the model persoanally.


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Just had a quick mess around on my lunch with your list and came up with the following. It's not awesome and only comes to 1490. The CCS is under developed but I didn't want to change too much as it's your army.

CCS
Astropath

PCS
2 Grenade Launchers
Autocannon

3 Inf Squad
3 Grenade Launcher
3 Autocannon
Commisar

2 Inf Squad
2 melta
2 PW
Commisar
1 PW

PCS
Al'rahem
4 melta

3 Inf Squad
3 Melta
3 Power Sword
Commissar
Power Sword

Hell Hound
Multi melta

Hellhound
MM

Basilisk

Basilisk

I like your list spankhammer, it covers most of basic needs. I still wouldn't give Meltas to regular BS3 infantry with the exception of PCS (due to 4 of them).

As for the buying list, yes, I had Bassies in mind, mainly. It's a shame, I too love the model. Bought one and painted, so far my best painted tank probably. But the outcome of my games improved significantly once I started leaving it at home :(

Ailaros wrote:I like the concept. I don't like the penal legionnaires. They're only adding more anti-infantry to a list SWIMMING in anti-infantry.

I'll probably axe them for more melta. I'd like to try out the legionnaires, but I suppose I do have more than enough anti-infantry planned for this list.

SpankHammer III wrote:Hellhounds are cool, last couple of times I ran mine I had a lot of sucess with them. I ran them with MM, I know it king of breaks the cardinal rule about mixing function, but it worked for what i wanted them to do.

That's not a bad idea. Just 15 points makes it an important target even for armored companies.

I'm not sure about having autocannons and grenade launchers in the same squad, though. Rapid-fire, assault, and heavy weapons in the same squad seems a bit unwieldy. I'll probably drop plasmas, though.

Sejanus wrote:Now if you don't want or don't have Chimeras, it's melta stormtroopers all the way.

One thing I was actually considering was combining the two and outflanking a Chimera with melta stormtroopers. I'll think about that a bit more.



Thanks, I appreciate all the comments.

I'm not sure about having autocannons and grenade launchers in the same squad, though. Rapid-fire, assault, and heavy weapons in the same squad seems a bit unwieldy. I'll probably drop plasmas, though.

I see where your coming from but in my experience they actually work quite well together. The AutoCannon S7 AP4 with the Krak Grenade S6 AP4, I hate this word, have "Synergy". The Grenade launcher also has the same range as the Lasgun so at 24" or under you can really pour on the hurt. I usually use this to hold home objectives. Had a game against a fluffy deathwing army using a very fluffy all walking army. Dawn of War, Seize ground, they fired the first couple of turns killed a fair few termies actually. Then they wheeled on the spot and were able tio grab another objective of course YMMV but I like how they work together.