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My friend and I were discussing some things about the Tyranid codex and came across the following scenario: A mycetic spore carrying a load of 15 or 20 genestealers deep strikes into an area terrain piece, and takes a dangerous terrain test for doing so. Do the infantry models who disembark from said transport have to take dangerous terrain tests as well, or can they disembark without penalty into a nice, safe cover save granting zone?

Nope, Its like disembarking from a vehicle into area terrain because the genestealers arent deep striking, the spore is. Lol and censoring Eddy Murphy's joke is a sin! Ill table you for it the next time i see you!

I believe that a mycetic spore cannot drift into any terrain. It would simply reduce the distance it traveled into the terrain by the minimum distance necessary to avoid the terrain or enemy models.

Connor McKane wrote:I believe that a mycetic spore cannot drift into any terrain. It would simply reduce the distance it traveled into the terrain by the minimum distance necessary to avoid the terrain or enemy models.

No, its like a Drop Pod. It cant hit Impassable or enemy models, area terrain is ok

Cannot scatter onto impassable, you can still place it there if you want to mishap.

Also you are incorrect about troops not deepstriking when the transport is; they are.

"In the movement phase when they arrive, these units may not move further, other than to disembark from a deep striking transport vehicle."

The above quote is from page 95 of the BRB(5th paragraph of Deep Strike), it is also the reason that infantry cannot assault after disembarking from an open-topped deep striking transport.

the rules for mycetic spore even explicitly states this: "A unit that Deep Strikes via a Mycetic Spore cannot move or assault in the same turn it arrives..."

Kommissar Kel wrote:Cannot scatter onto impassable, you can still place it there if you want to mishap.

Also you are incorrect about troops not deepstriking when the transport is; they are.

"In the movement phase when they arrive, these units may not move further, other than to disembark from a deep striking transport vehicle."

The above quote is from page 95 of the BRB(5th paragraph of Deep Strike), it is also the reason that infantry cannot assault after disembarking from an open-topped deep striking transport.

the rules for mycetic spore even explicitly states this: "A unit that Deep Strikes via a Mycetic Spore cannot move or assault in the same turn it arrives..."

Ok, so do you want to answer the question as to the unit taking dangerous terrain tests?
Oh, and btw Via means by way of. I think this would still mean the unit itself isnt deep striking.
Your own post says "from a deep striking transport vehicle" The vehicle is deep striking in this sentence, not the unit

From memory, opinions were a little divided on this one last time around.

Troops Deep Striking inside a transport are still Deep Striking. That's backed up by the sentence Kommissar Kel just quoted ('These units' is referring to units arriving by Deep Strike, when you read it in context), and by the Mycetic Spore rule he also quoted ('A unit that Deep Strikes via a Mycetic Spore...')

So if the unit is considered to be Deep Striking, it should take a Dangerous Terrain test if it lands in Difficult or Dangerous Terrain.


However, there was an opinion roaming around that this seemed a little unfair for transported units, since they face a double jeopardy situation, as both the transport and the unit would have to test.

I don't recall if this was covered in the rulebook FAQ, and I'm at work so can't check just now...

It seems rather clear to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

The transport and the passengers are both deep striking. The transport deep strikes into the area terrain and has to take a dangerous terrain test. The passengers deep strike into the transport, but not directly onto the area terrain, so no dangerous terrain test.

It's the same logic as to why a transport that's in area terrain being destroyed-exploded doesn't allow the passengers to get cover saves. They aren't in the area terrain until after they've been placed on the table.

That works for me, Grakmar.

While the rules make clear that the troops are indeed DSing, a reasonable interpretation/observation would seem to be that since they do so INSIDE the vehicle, they are not subject to wounds on landing.

When they disembark, that's regular movement, not a DS move, so doesn't incur the Dangerous check.

That seems to be the interpretation I would go for as well, The same applies to space marines disembarking from a drop pod in an area terrain piece. Imagine, 2 deepstriking, 2 infiltrating, and 2 outflanking squads of genestealers in a single army list...As long as you didn't get boned on reserves rolls, that could be quite intimidating.

Need to get a Hive Commander in there to improve the odds of getting as much as possible of the Reserve stuff on turn 2. Those Infiltrating squads had also better be big; it would suck have them killed before their fellows showed up.

Every tactic has its risks and flaws, but you make a good point.

thanks everyone for the input so far. Any opposing points of view?

mycetic spore pods can drop into area (non dangerous or impassible terrain with no penalties). they follow the drop pod rule.

So why would the gene stealers take test in passable terrain?

This question is flawed because the OP doesn't understand the rules for drop pods.

gannam wrote:mycetic spore pods can drop into area (non dangerous or impassible terrain with no penalties). they follow the drop pod rule.

So why would the gene stealers take test in passable terrain?

This question is flawed because the OP doesn't understand the rules for drop pods.

Deep Striking models count area terrain as dangerous. So, they would have to take a test.

His question was on point, made sense, and raised a valid issue with the rules. I don't see why his question was flawed.

The models are not on the table when the drop pod comes in.

They only deploy, they do not deep strike. There is a major difference.

They most certainly DO Deep Strike, as the quotes Kel and Insaniak already posted make clear. And THEN they deploy.

If it was terminators deepstriking without a drop pod then yes, they take a test.

If a unit is disembarking out of a vehicle that deepstriked then the only movement that they are doing is deploying.

That unit is not preforming an act of deepstriking, as there are only a few units that can do that. Genestealers are not one of them.

A) A drop pod can never land in impassable or dangerous terrain

B) deployment rules allow you to ignore area terrain rules for movement. You always get your two inches no matter what. If a unit deployed into dangerous terrain from a drop pod that landed 1 inch away from it, then yes, they have to take a dangerous terrain test.

If a unit is disembarking out of a vehicle that deepstriked then the only movement that they are doing is deploying.

Incorrect. This is the same basis on which people tried to argue that you could DS in a Dark Angels drop pod and then assault, since it's open-topped.

GW added a clarifying prohibition in the later SM codices, but the wording of that sentence actually tells you directly that the unit is Deep Striking via drop pod. Mycetic pod rules have almost identical phrasing. The rules make clear that the unit INSIDE a DSing vehicle is also considered to be DSing.

A) A drop pod can never land in impassable or dangerous terrain

This is also incorrect. It can land in dangerous terrain.

If you post in a rules thread, and someone tells you that you're mistaken, it's usually a good idea to look up the rule before posting again, to make sure you don't keep posting erroneous information.

Well, the rules are very specific about assaulting but forcing a unit of marines to take a dangerous terrain test when arriving in a drop pod in a clump of trees is very outside of the rules as we currently know them.

Does anyone know if INAT has covered this? I think you may be right that there is a hole here.

Just checked; nothing in INAT about it.

That being said, the general practice GW has gone with in its rules is that you usually can't cause wounds to a unit inside a transport.

I don't think anyone's really going to object if we just have the pod take its test, and let the guys disembark safely.

Grakmar wrote:Deep Striking models count area terrain as dangerous.

A slight nit-pick there... Deep Striking models count difficult terrain as dangerous. Area terrain is usually, but not always difficult terrain. And not all difficult terrain is Area terrain.

Good point!

I don't often see Area Terrain that's NOT difficult, but it's not impossible.

And I frequently see Difficult Terrain that's not Area.

I think the subtle point is that deep striking models only actually treat difficult terrain as dangerous when they are "arriving via deep strike".

Let's say that I deep strike a unit of Daemons or a unit of jump pack marines into a forest. When they arrive using deep strike, that forest is going to be dangerous terrain for them, but it won't be dangerous terrain in the shooting phase if the unit chooses to run.

There's the minor inconsistency concerning how the Daemonhunter mystics work, but I'd just as soon sweep that entire codex under the rug as it is. It's just more simpler to assume that GW didn't want to deal with putting marines at a disadvantage by having the drop pods exploding with the troops inside.

insaniak wrote:

Grakmar wrote:Deep Striking models count area terrain as dangerous.

A slight nit-pick there... Deep Striking models count difficult terrain as dangerous. Area terrain is usually, but not always difficult terrain. And not all difficult terrain is Area terrain.

insaniak is 100% correct. I sometimes forget that area terrain could be non-difficult.

Eh, after a bit of editing, I figured out I have nothing to contribute.