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In the codex if you look at the wargear fot thousand sons they only have a bolter. In every other section for wargear on troops they list closecombat weapon or a pistol. So as long as the sorceror in the squad has a rule i dont know about im assuming they cant assult????

They can always assault.Not having a BP/CCW does not forbid them from it,consider them slugging people with the stocks of their bolters.Its just that without a DT it will just take a while for them to march up to someone with Slow and Purposeful to do it.

You don't need to have a weapon at all to assault. You do need a ranged weapon in order to shoot, but for assault all you need is WS, A, S, T, and W 9and the ability to move).

The T-Sons just don't get a bonus attack in close combat because they're not armed with 2 CCWs, or a CCW + pistol, like most Chaos units.

No bonus attack, AP 3 rapid fire just means you shouldn't assault but they still can.

Point of clarification:

Rapid Fire does mean that if you shoot you can't assault that turn.

I think DAaddict was just trying to point out that they're better at shooting than they are at assaulting, and since having Rapidfire guns forces them to choose between the two, they're usually better off not assaulting.

I think what he was asking is because Thousand Suns have Slow and Purposeful can they shoot a rapid fire weapon and Assault. I'm pretty sure the answer is still no but I could be wrong.

Thank you for the catch!

I was apparently suffering from a bout of stupidity.

Yes, you are right indeed. T-Sons are Slow & Purposeful, and thus also benefit from the Relentless special rule, which means they can fire Rapidfire weapons and still assault.

My bad!

Mannahnin wrote:You don't need to have a weapon at all to assault. You do need a ranged weapon in order to shoot, but for assault all you need is WS, A, S, T, and W 9and the ability to move).

You don't even need the T and W, or else walkers (or other vehicles with a WS) couldn't assault. And, not being able to move is fine as long as you get charged and aren't the one doing the charging.

And mind you, even though it doesn't sound like they would be good in assault, they're surprisingly good
If the sorcerer has warptime, his attacks combined with the 4+ inv the squad has makes a durable and actually good cc squad
Oh and the sorcerer can use warptime AND his force weapon in the same turn

See my friend seems to think that you can only use inv save against instant death. So you think that if you fail to save a wound with armour save then you can use the inv save too???

You can only use one save ever. You have to choose between Invuln, Cover, or Armor. Against wounds that cause instant death, it is possible to take armor saves against them. For example, Krak Missles against Terminators. They can take their 2+ armor, and if they fail, they will be ID'd.

And the save you choose must be the best available save.

For Example: Lets put those Thousand Sons marines in some high grass. They now have available: a 5+ cover save, 4+ invulnerable save, and a 3+ armor save. Then lets have them get shot at by several different weapons: a bolter, a Plasma gun, a Grey knights' Incinerator, an Inferno Cannon, and some mythical AP3 gun that ignores invulnerable saves. With the bolter they take their armor save, the plasma their invulnerable, the Incinerator ignores their invulnerable and cover saves so they are forced to take their armor saves(which was the best save anyways), The inferno cannon ignores cover and has a high enough AP to ignore their armor so they take their invulnerable. now the mythical gun bypasses their invulnerable and armor saves so they must take their 5+ cover save.

Sebbyp538 wrote:See my friend seems to think that you can only use inv save against instant death. So you think that if you fail to save a wound with armour save then you can use the inv save too???

As said you only ever roll one save, the best allowed (and Feel No Pain if you have it and the hit allows it). Invulnerable saves can be used against wounds just like normal saves. And you still get to use a Cover or Inv save if disallowed an armor save - for example a Marine Commander hit by a plasma gun would have to use his Inv save or a cover save if he can claim one. Check page 24 in the rulebook - Models with more than one save.

And no, Instant Death doesn't disallow saves or bypass normal wounding rules. ID is a result of taking an unsaved wound from a weapon that causes it - while most have enough AP that you get no normal armor save it's not always the case. Your opponent has to cause the wound first, just as normal, and you have to fail your save.

So Chaos Space Marines with Bolt Pistols, Bolters, and Close Combat Weapons can fire 1 shot from their Bolt Pistols and charge 6" with 3 attacks (A1, +1 extra close combat weapon bonus, +1 charge bonus) at I4

Thousand Sons with Bolters can fire 2 shots from their Bolters and charge 2D6^1" with 2 attacks (A1, +1 charge bonus) at I1. Slow and Purposeful not only allows them to shoot Rapid Fire weapons and charge, it reduces them to I1 on the turn they charge, so it's probably good they're Iv4+ as well as Sv3+. Thereafter it's I4. Something to keep in mind.

On the other hand, which would you prefer, 1 AP5 shot at 3+ and 3 AP- attacks at 4+ or 2 AP3 shots at 3+ and 2 AP- attacks at 4+?

Plus the Aspiring Sorcerer is not an Independent Character and can cast Gift of Chaos twice, and the Force Weapon is like a combination Power Weapon (for the extra attack) and Power Fist (for the Instant Death and I1 on the charge).