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I noticed the Special Character Khan and his ability to give all Rhinos and some Landraiders the Outflank ability...

Why don't more people use him? It sounds ridiculous to have 6 flanking Rhinos and a Landraider all up in your business.

Has anyone tried this? Does it work?

I don't believe that Land Raiders are Dedicated Transports for Vanilla: SM.

Therefore only rhinos, and razorbacks would benefit.

It sounds good if you have some extra points in a mech list, but I'm sticking with Vulkan, Mastercrafted TH/Meltas = Priceless.

Yes, Landraiders are dedicated transports for Terminator squads in the Marines codex, but Kor'Sarro Khan is not an Ultramarine, he's a captain of the White Scars Third Company.

Thaanos wrote:Yes, Landraiders are dedicated transports for Terminator squads in the Marines codex, but Kor'Sarro Khan is not an Ultramarine, he's a captain of the White Scars Third Company.

Sorry for the misconception. I think he would work quite well if you run a mech army then, a LRR popping out behind you is a scary thought!

Most of the time when you see khan, he is in a mostly bike army. Which is scary when you have all those T5 melta and plasma guns outflank you (not to mention the outflanking command squad)

Thaanos wrote:Yes, Landraiders are dedicated transports for Terminator squads in the Marines codex, but Kor'Sarro Khan is not an Ultramarine, he's a captain of the White Scars Third Company.

Which doesn't matter at all - they're all in C:SM.

I used Khan (just mentioned in another thread) and since he gives *all* units Outflank, the Dedicated LR issue is tossed out (though Khan's rule does address Dedicated Ts, they all get OF too).

I'd put him in a LRR with non-JP Vanguard. Or a Chaplain.

It was fun for a bit, but eventually, the usual Reserves issues cropped up (taking too long to arrive). I supposed it is time that players rediscovers Khan's appeal.

Brothererekose wrote:I used Khan (just mentioned in another thread) and since he gives *all* units Outflank, the Dedicated LR issue is tossed out (though Khan's rule does address Dedicated Ts, they all get OF too).

If you read the entire rule, you will realize you are very wrong.

His ability means that all units with the combat tactics exchange combat tactics with the ability to outflank. Since no vehicle has the combat tactics rule to exchange, they do not gain the outflank rule.

Veldrain wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:I used Khan (just mentioned in another thread) and since he gives *all* units Outflank, the Dedicated LR issue is tossed out (though Khan's rule does address Dedicated Ts, they all get OF too).

If you read the entire rule, you will realize you are very wrong.

His ability means that all units with the combat tactics exchange combat tactics with the ability to outflank. Since no vehicle has the combat tactics rule to exchange, they do not gain the outflank rule.

As did you, mate. His rule states:

"If you include Kor'sarro Khan then all units in your army exchange the Combat Tactics special rule for the ability to outflank. If you choose to do this, all dedicated transports also gain the ability to outflank - see the Reserves mission special rule. If more than one character in your army has the Chapter Tactics special rule, you must choose which will apply." (Codex: Space Marines, page 94)

Seriously, if you're going to try to correct someone by saying "read the entire rule", make sure you do, too.

EDIT: And I need to read into posts more carefully before attempting to smite them.

Dedicated transports don't exactly count as *all* units as he stated. A LR bought as a heavy support and not a dedicated transport does not gain the outflanking ability.

I see. Wow, totally misread this. I was referring to your "Since no vehicle has the combat tactics rule to exchange, they do not gain the outflank rule."

Yeah, the first time I read Khan I was all happy about outflanking vindicators and dreadnoughts. But alas, its not to be.

Other then bike armies, Khan pretty much sucks. You can try him in razorspam lists, but just hope the reserve rolls like you.

Khan is inferior for Biker lists as those rely *more* on Combat Tactics than the other ones. Removing it to outflank units which vannot Tank Shock isn't exactly wise...

Gavo wrote:I see. Wow, totally misread this. I was referring to your "Since no vehicle has the combat tactics rule to exchange, they do not gain the outflank rule."

Yeah, I do believe this was the reason that I changed up SM lists ... vehicles don't have the Combat Tactics to exchange ... I apologize (it's been 18 months or more).

Still, it's a legal tactic if termies take the LR as dedicated, and that is only one shooty termie crew and another assaulty crew. After that, no more. Just the two.

MagicJuggler wrote:Khan is inferior for Biker lists as those rely *more* on Combat Tactics than the other ones. Removing it to outflank units which vannot Tank Shock isn't exactly wise...

What? No obligatory White Scars Tournament fail picture?

Thaylen wrote:

MagicJuggler wrote:Khan is inferior for Biker lists as those rely *more* on Combat Tactics than the other ones. Removing it to outflank units which vannot Tank Shock isn't exactly wise...

What? No obligatory White Scars Tournament fail picture?

Here it is!

If you are really worried about reserve rolls, you can always take the special character Librarian, He lets you re-roll ALL reserve rolls. You can either re-roll fails to get most stuff on turn 2, OR re-roll the successes to hold stuff for later.

the problem is that Kanh+Special librarian is like 400 pts worth of HQ's.....

@Snvendrex: Yeah. Tigurius. He's a large investment for a fairly poor character.

Really, the only Ultramarine Special Character generally worth it at 2000 points is Telion. The Smurfs are an entire chapter of modern major-generals.

Khan probably would work better in a Vulkhan list where his Bike Command Squad replaces one of the Land Raiders (as face it, a H&R bike team can be hilarious).

I have used Khan without bike simply to give a unit of Assault Terminators Furious charge since he is not that expensive an HQ without bike. Assault terminators with Lighting claws and Furious charge is pretty potent. as a bonus they also get hit and run which is nice. I also usually don't exchange Combat tactics since I wont be using his outflank bonus.

As a Secondary HQ I've tried Vulkan and Lysander but I I find the lack of Pyschic utility and defense hurts the list so I usually stick with librarian.

mrdabba wrote:I have used Khan without bike simply to give a unit of Assault Terminators Furious charge since he is not that expensive an HQ without bike. Assault terminators with Lighting claws and Furious charge is pretty potent. as a bonus they also get hit and run which is nice. I also usually don't exchange Combat tactics since I wont be using his outflank bonus.

As a Secondary HQ I've tried Vulkan and Lysander but I I find the lack of Pyschic utility and defense hurts the list so I usually stick with librarian.

If you are only taking 1 Special Character in the HQ slot you don't get a choice in exchanging Combat Tactics, it happens. You only get a choice if you have 2 characters that change combat tactics, and in that instance you choose which one will have their version take precedence.

Cheers,
~Volkan

sorry I should have pointed out that when using vulkan or Lysander I go with their specials over Khan's I was aware of the fact that you dont have a choice with just khan.