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okay, so as we all know Orks are savage, battle hungry,and humorus. their entire "Kulture" revolves around who is the stongest and war. so why OH WHY, is the strength of the average Ork Boy only a 3? is a +1 increase to their strenght really that far fetched? i mean c'mon they are huge! is it to even the playing field because there are so many of them? and also, units where their sole purpose is to shoot at great distances i.e. Devistators, Havoks, Lootas, i think they should have an increased BS as they either have been doing it long enough to be good at it, or they have been trained to use those specific weapons. And finally units that initiate an assault should get the first attack, regardless of the initiative of their opponents, i mean that one just makes sense doesnt it? maybe im just complaining because my Orks just got monkey stomped.... but anyway does any of this make sense to anyone else?

Because they've lost brain power figuring out text walls with bad punctuation

But really, your average boy is what? A few points? If you give them stat boosts, then you have to boost everyone else's stats to balance the game or make them more expensive, which means less orks which means less have to die before they go to bad Ld, so either way it either doesn't work out in your favor.

For the ranged troopers, well, for starters they can use heavy weaponry accurately, I mean, really, if you normally fire a boltgun, a small arms weapon with little recoil compared to a heavy weapon, how good do you have to be to fire a heavy weapon with the same degree of accuracy.

And for the assaults, well, if I charge at you, and your quicker than me, you can get out of the way of my attack, hit me, then retreat; or you could parry my attack, riposte (probably killing me) and spin away; or you could shoot me with those rapid firing missile launchers as I charge you. Remember, when you charge the people being charged arn't going to wait for you, your going to have to wade through small arms fire, grenades and your opponent charging you, going through cover is worse.

touche good sir, touche

And Furious Charge does give your orks +1 S on the charge...

Orks has Str 3 so that they'll stronger on the charge, and therefore have to avoid getting charged.

Units that are supported to be long ranged support units are just your normal units with heavier weapons. Besides, how fair would it be to have long fangs with BS5?

Dude, you're losing cause you're not playing them right, not because they suck. Boyz are one of the most reasonable models in the game.

For six points per model, ork boyz are a steal. They have four attacks and s4 on the charge, and are fleet if your tactics are good. Mathematically speaking, charging ork boyz will stomp any unit at equal points in the game, except for tanks with rear armor better than 10 and the heaviest of infantry. Add a nob with a PK and those restrictions are gone they can take anything other than a land raider and AV 13 walkers-- at this point you've got one of the scariest scoring units in existence. Ork boyz do not need to be any better.

Frankly I was suprised when I first realized they were Toughness 4.

I always rationalized their low strength as indicative of their combat style; favoring getting a lot of attacks in over making sure their attacks are lethal. With S4 on the charge they'll be using the higher strength about half of the time anyways, so I don't find it particularly unbelievable.

As said, Ork boys are actually a very good troop for their cost; you need to make sure you get that charge though! And you'll want to outnumber most close combat oriented opponents pretty soundly. A nob with a powerklaw also adds a nice punch to the squad, if you have the points for one.

Bear in mind, orks are not as strong as a Space Marine, so there is an issue with making them S4. The balance, supposedly, has been by giving them more attacks, but I don't know that this sufficiently represents them, at least not how they are portrayed since 3rd edition.

To go to S4, they would need to lose an attack and Furious Charge to even remain close to the 6 point cost. I could possibly see Slugga Boyz having S4 (1 attack base, but with +1 for slugga/choppa, and no FC) and Shoota Boyz having S3. Furious Charge could be tied into the Waaaagh! (which makes sense AND would make it more useful).

While an ork is 6 points, which is nice, they do have many weaknesses that offset that bargain price (no armor, crappy vehicles, crap ballistic skill, mediocre weapon upgrades, poor leadership in smaller units, etc.), so I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more on the "strengths" side of the orks. Right now, orks are just wounds for the power klaw nob against anything tougher than a Guardsman; that doesn't seem right.

I have to disagree but an ork is not just S:3
He is S:3 in EACH arm.

You guys are also forgetting that they are ALL ws4!!! So when a regular slugga boy charges a marine he gets 4 attacks that hit on fours and wound on fours, that means each boy is gonna cause one wound each, they are gonna win even against PF termies in a lot of situations.. Now put 19 of those in a wagon with with a nob and you have an extremely fast moving tough unit that will work over pretty much any unit in the game other than a nightbringer or carnifex brood, and that is just the basic bottom line run of the mill bare bones squad that scores objectives. I wouldn't be complaining at all, in fact when I played orks in 3rd and 4th ed. they were a little overpowered for six points with a choppa(limits AS to 4+ at best), they chewed through marines and crons like ethiopians through rice.

Skarboy wrote:While an ork is 6 points, which is nice, they do have many weaknesses that offset that bargain price (no armor, crappy vehicles, crap ballistic skill, mediocre weapon upgrades, poor leadership in smaller units, etc.), so I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more on the "strengths" side of the orks. Right now, orks are just wounds for the power klaw nob against anything tougher than a Guardsman; that doesn't seem right.

Gotta disagree a bit here.

Orks are, as mentioned a steal for 6 points a model. Other units with better CC stats will often lose against an Ork charge due to sheer weight of numbers (such as in KFF lists). 30 Boys could reliably charge a squad of most Eldar units and come out on the other side, possibly battered against Harlequins, Scorpions, or Banshees, but ultimately victorious. 4 strength 4 attacks on the charge, plus 4 more PK attacks coming in is flat-out dangerous. With 29 boys and a Nob, before attacks, you've got 116 S4 attacks on initiative 3, and 4 Str8 Power Fist attacks at initiative 1. Sorry, but under that many attacks, even the lethal CC units of Marines, Eldar, DE, and Tyranids have trouble living.

True, they suffer from paper armor, poor Ballistics, and bad LD once they drop under 10 - but the skillful player (in my opinion) takes notes of these weaknesses and works with them. The T4 is what really sells them - The humble lasgun got more humble, only wounding on 5+. Bolters and similar weaponry only wound on 4+, and while most break armor, they weren't relying on it anyway.

Simple reason why is because this is a d6 game and not a d10 one. Orks would fall in between humans and Space Muhreens in terms of strength, but there is no number between 3 and 4...

Guys, just to get this straight, Orks don't have armor, they have tough skin.

For 6 points, what they have now is a steal.

Adding +1 str to them would be ridiculous at that price.