Switch Theme:

Dark Eldar vs Marines. Starting a new army but it will die a lott  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Hello.

I was a very big fan of the old dark eldar codex. It could throw out a huge amounts of lance attacks and then drive around in there pimp pirate boats laughing like a maniac. In the new Codex lacer spam has become mutch harder, however they are now more funn to play since you have so mutch to chose from. In short I want to start a dark eldar army as it will complement my nids and space wolfs in play styles.

However there is one snag. My regular oponent is a space marine player, who uses mech. He will devestate me. Usualy at 1750 he has:

3 Dreadnoughts (double autocannons or if he uses Vulkan melta\flamer in a pod)
3 Land Speedrs (melta\flamer but moast regulary heavy bolters and roket laucher)
2\3 Whirldwinds or dakka predators

2 Marine troops in rhino with 5 with lasercannon or 3 lasor and plasma razorbacks.
1 psyker, or vulkan.
Rocket Launcher terminators are also known to aper.

My space wolves have a chanche against them, but my tyranids die horribly. And I am predicting that all those ranged attacks also will destroy me. Also, many of the dark eldar units have a hard time against mech, since they cannot harm mech. Also, the lack of units means that there are few pain tokens to pick up.

I need an alcomer dark eldar list that is primaraly kittet towards taking out mech.

The best I can think of is harlequins (or some other good webway portal delivery system), and the old warrior lance squad in the elite slott. After the portal opens up 3 scourge units with blasters. 3 Ravagers would could come from reserve to take out tanks. Troops I have no idea about.

I do not know. I know I like the look of the dark eldar. I like there potensial. But I want to be abel to take out that mech monstrosety. Any advice at 1750 points?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/25 13:26:57


   
Made in us
Charing Cold One Knight




Lafayette, IN

That list isn't too bad to take out, I've seen much worse.

Bring ravagers, raiders, and jetbikes/scourges to the party. Give the skimmers flickerfields. Give the jetbikes/scourges blasters or lances.

For you troops bring wyches with haywire grenades and warriors with blaster, splinter cannon, and blast pistol sybarite.

Target priority is key here. Kill what is easiest to kill first. So speeders, razors, dreds, then preds. Infantry killing is lower priority, even if they have lascannons. You want to take out the high volume platforms first, as flicker fields drop the single shot units ability to kill way down.

A list like this:

3 haemonculi with liquifier guns ~60 ea

3 9 strong wych squads with HW grenades riding FF raiders (attach haemonculi here) ~ 178 ea
2 10 strong warrior units W/ blaster, splinter cannon, Sybarite w/blast pistol and venom blade riding a plain raider ~ 205 ea
2 units of 5 scourges W/ blasters ~140 ea
3 Flicker Field Ravagers. 115 ea

That is 14 dark lances, 6 blasters, 2 blast pistols, and 27 haywire grenades. You shouldn't have any trouble with tanks with that. You also still have decent anti infantry power with 3 units of wyches (which get FNP from the HQ) 3 template weapons, 3 splinter cannons, and some shard carbines added to the spinter pistols and rifles.

You could bring even more anti tank fire power if you went with trueborn, but honestly this should be enough to do the job.

Edit: point value and transports

Also, instead of venom blades in the warriors, could go with chain snares are shock prowls on those units raiders.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/24 17:00:23


 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Hmmm...yes I se what you are suggesting. It is just that it is a slugg fest with las and auto cannons on one side and a lott of dark light lances on the other side.

I did a modefication of your list. I am not a fan of Homunuli with the Wyches. The kill token is fine but I would lose the runn. Also the Homunkuli with the flamer template does not seem very good stuckin the raider since it can only move 6". (Yes he can disembark but then he dies.) Also wytches arenot good vs a lot of mech. I thought the old lance spam was dead but the trueborn warriors can take it back. Wytches have become troops so that balances up.

Haemonculus, Hexrifle, Dark Gate 90

4 Kabalite Trueborn, 2 Dark Lances, 86
3 Kabalite Trueborn, 2 Dark Lances, 1 Raider, Flickerfield 156
3 Kabalite Trueborn, 2 Dark Lances, 1 Raider, Flickerfield 156

10 Warriors, Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider, Flickerfield 185
10 Warriors, Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider 175
10 Warriors, Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider 175
4 Wracks, Acothyst, Hexrifle, Venom 120

10 Scourges, 4 Blasters, 280

1 Ravager 105
1 Ravager 105
1 Ravager 105

1750 points

Put transports in cover, raiders behind. If the terain is not good enough then put the flicker fields up front. Put Haemonculus in the scourges, and runn him into the venom afterwards.

17 Dark Lances, 7 Blasters, 55 models, 4 Scoring units, 18 kills points (that's dark eldar for you) and almoast everything mechanised.

Any advice would be apreciated. I am currently not so shure about the scourges or the trueborn on foot.

   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






Trueborn should not have Dark lances.

The new codex is all about mobility, plus for the cost of 2 darklances in a truborn squad you can get 3 blasters and a shredder(or just save the 5 points per squad and give 1 squad 4 Blasters, leave the other 2 with 3; especially since that is how many trueborn are in each unit).

Scourges and Reavers are the only way you can get heat lances; which are effectively just 18" melta guns. Since your list only has the 1 fast attack choice split the Scourge unit in 2; each with 2 heat lances. this only saves you 12 points but does give you 4 meltas, on jump troops.

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in us
Charing Cold One Knight




Lafayette, IN

wyches are a bit better vs transports than most give credit for. Sure, HW grenades only pen on a 6, but they glance on a 2+. Which is all you really need, since most glances stop that tank from shooting or often even moving. If it is a transport, it might even force the enemy into unwisely disembarking.

The real reason for the wyches is to tie up and oftne kill nasty assault units. They are quite resilient in this role, and that is why I included them. They buy the rest of your army more time than you would think. With haermonculus they are even pretty resilient against shooting.

Why do the wracks have a transport when their gun is a sniper (immobile)? Not a huge fan of spending 120 for a single riffle + small anti infantry transport when you can instead almost get 2 additional Harmonculi with riffles (get rid of the dark gate and you can, it isn't all that great for 25 points)

The whole then he dies comment made me laugh a bit. With dark eldar Haemies they are kinda supposed to die. It is their fluff, and honestly if my opponent wants to spend a turn shooting at my 60 point guy who already did his job when there is just about anything else better to shoot at... more power too them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/25 17:02:18


 
   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Seattle WA

PM Dash of pepper, the dude rocks the tournament scene with dark eldar.


See more on Know Your Meme 
   
Made in ca
Angered Reaver Arena Champion






At least he did. He had a thread a while ago denouncing D.eldar as he was unable to make a list that could beat IG.

Sangfroid Marines 5000 pts
Wych Cult 2000
Tau 2000 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Yes. I saw dash of peppers rant thread. I was not all that impressed. He has very little ranged weapons, being only dependent on the blaster.

Komisoner Kell, I am not all that impressed with the trueborn blaster squad. The problem is that in order for them to shoot they can not move further then 6 and shoot unless you disembark. That gives them a range of 24 instead of 36. If I move out of the transport it is a very expensive sueside squad, worse then a SW WG melta drop pod, witch is OK, but not great. I already have a lott of blasters.

Think of the true born lance squad as the old 10 man lance squad in the old codex. (Yes it was troop but that does not mean that it still is not a good squad.)

I would rather like to move at full speed first turn and shoot the next with dark lances, rather than doing the very same with blasters. The reason being that the dark lances inhibits his deployment, while the blasters do not.

I do also not think that scourges and reavers should get heat lances. Range 18" lance with str 6 melta does not help a lott unless I am 9" away. Str 8 I would need to roll 3\4 vs a rhino while the heatlance would need to roll 5\6. Yes it gets +1 to the damadge roll but I still do not like the ods. I got a rather good oponent so that I doubt that he will charge my units. He is good at keeping his army tight.

Reavers are very good in my opinion, but they are best when they turboboost over a squad with the D6 S6 attacks. If they stand still they will be dead vs autocannons and bolters (if they are in range.) (Although scourges also die a lott vs the dread predators and dreadnought auto cannon.) Although the ravagers would be verry good in melting down his rhinos\razorbacks and then charge into the spacemarines inside. Just as long as Vulcan is not inside and\or a dreadnought is guarding it. (A dreadnought vs ravagers in close combat = dead ravagers.)

As for the homunculy. Yes perhaps he would be vasting a around shooting at it (DE being surpicingly good at MSU) however it is just one drop pod\rhino who shoots him dead. In the transports he can drive around with the wracks having 2 sniper assault 1attacks and also the venom can shoot. The reason for the transport notabot is of course to have scoring units. With so mutch lances in the table he would be pretty hard press to give a lott of resourses into killing the venom, and then killing 5 units (in cover moast likly) with feel no pain.

However all advice is apriciated and put into consideration. It is just that vs my regular oponent (the marine player) I need more ranged anti tank guns then him because he has plenty, and he is shure to withstand more then me. (Last game I had with the tyranids I managed to take out 10 marines and 1 rhino, 1 dreadnought, the rest he just kited\played good.)

I am quite curios about the ravagers and the wytches though. Also to Komissar Kel, I do agree that ravagers are good with the heat lance, but I do also think that the talos will be a very good melta unit with the twin liked headlance. (If it takes out a transport the talos can chase what is inside as well.)

   
Made in us
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer




Here's my 1850 I've been using for the past few games, it's been doing great (I think it would do well against the lists you are running into, if anything it could probably use some tweaks w/ the Trueborn/Scourge squads, YMMV):

Spoiler:



[MOD EDIT - DO NOT post individual points cost! Totals for a squad are OK, but DON'T break it down! Thanks!]

HQ
3x Haemonculi

Troops

20 warriors 180
2 dark lance x
20 warriors 180
2 dark lance x

Elites

10x trueborn 120
4x blaster x
6x shardcarbine x

10x trueborn 120
4x blaster x
6x shardcarbine x

5x incubi 110
klaivex x
demiklaives x
onslaught x
venom x

Heavy Support
razorwing x
razorwing x
razorwing x

Fast Attack
5x scourge 110

To get it to 1750 you can drop the trueborn carbines (In truth im not sure if they're worth it anyway) and the extra 20 pts can get you weapons on the scourge, or some haywire grenades.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/26 01:55:52


BAMF 
   
Made in us
Charing Cold One Knight




Lafayette, IN

Is that a mostly foot list? I know it is a viable option, just hadn't seen one without beast pack giving cover/counter assault.

 
   
Made in us
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior




If you need to add more anti-tank, go with

3 Trueborn
2 Dark Lances
Raider

Total comes out to 146 points. For that, you get 3 Dark Lances, basically a quasi-Ravager. However, the great thing about it is that if you park those Trueborn in cover, you can float the Raider around and both units are rather low on your opponents priority list, making them a much bigger threat. The ability to basically run up to 6 Ravagers is a pretty good deal and works well for a fairly low amount of points.

1500pt Hellion Dark Eldar - 12W/10L/3D 
   
Made in us
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer




notabot187 wrote:Is that a mostly foot list? I know it is a viable option, just hadn't seen one without beast pack giving cover/counter assault.


That seems like a good idea, especially if the board setup isn't going to give you enough cover, you could probably swap a TB squad or Scourge for something to provide it. I normally use the TB unit with FnP to cover for the other one if they have to advance and the Incubi for counter-assault but IMO what makes the list strong is that starter of 3x razorwing and 40 warriors with the haemoncs to hand out FnP, from there the rest of the units can be swapped around until you get to something you're comfortable with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After checking the book I would probably recommend warriors as mobile cover over a BM unit just due to the points cost. The damage they would deal via shooting would probably help compensate for their lack of CC punch too, and provides you with more scoring units, which is always nice.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/26 08:37:13


BAMF 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Trueborn should not have Dark lances.

The new codex is all about mobility, plus for the cost of 2 darklances in a truborn squad you can get 3 blasters and a shredder(or just save the 5 points per squad and give 1 squad 4 Blasters, leave the other 2 with 3; especially since that is how many trueborn are in each unit).



Komisoner Kell, I am not all that impressed with the trueborn blaster squad. The problem is that in order for them to shoot they can not move further then 6 and shoot unless you disembark. That gives them a range of 24 instead of 36. If I move out of the transport it is a very expensive sueside squad, worse then a SW WG melta drop pod, witch is OK, but not great. I already have a lott of blasters.

Think of the true born lance squad as the old 10 man lance squad in the old codex. (Yes it was troop but that does not mean that it still is not a good squad.)


I agree with the second quote, and completely disagree with the first quote. Just because there are effective/efficient mobile elements does not preclude more static elements, nor is there necessarily a need to spam only mobile elements. Outside of HS, DE have no way of getting their 36" range lances in as high a quantity, or at the relatively low points cost.

I do tend to pair my trueborn with a warrior squad though. So a standard loadout would look something like:

2 x 3 Trueborn w/ 2 Dark Lances, Raider
2 x 10 Warriors w/ Dark Lance, Raider

That's a tad bit under 650 pts, and gives me 6 Dark lances that are fairly static, but can be deployed to cover much of the midfield, and some of the opponent's DZ. In addition, there 4 mobile dark lances on platforms that are very effective at screening my other shooty elements (typically ravagers). The warriors aren't absolutely necessary, but as I have elements that are static, why not include a couple more static elements that are actually scoring?


After checking the book I would probably recommend warriors as mobile cover over a BM unit just due to the points cost. The damage they would deal via shooting would probably help compensate for their lack of CC punch too, and provides you with more scoring units, which is always nice.


The thing you're missing about the Beasts unit is that they are far far harder to dislodge than the warriors. Just bringing 2 beastmasters w/ max razorflocks, and one with max khymerae (whatever the 4+ inv save critter is) nets you more wounds than the warriors, and very resilient wounds at that. I don't think the warriors are cheaper enough to justify not taking advantage, as well as missing the counter charge threat that the beasts provide.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





United States

You can fit more Lance weapons in the new codex than you could in the old codex.

I have managed to fit 34 Darklight weapons in a 1500 point list with the new codex. My 2500 point 'Ard Boy list in the old codex had 35 Dark Lance weapons!

Mech shouldn't be an issue for you at all.

Just cram cram cram and cram those darklight weapons in your army!

Ayn Rand "We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality" 
   
Made in us
Charing Cold One Knight




Lafayette, IN

The unit of beast masters I plan on running (once I convert some up) is only 250 points total, and is pretty much maxed out. 5 masters, 6 flocks, 5 khymerae, 1 fiend. That unit gives you 5 4++ saves, 6 bases with 5 wounds each, and 1 base with T5 to absorb lascannon and missile shots when you don't feel like taking them on the 4++ guys. It has a total of 44 wounds including the beastmasters.

Their offensive potential is very powerful (esp for their points) and their normal defensive ability is very strong. When you consider how big in size this unit is, it is pretty easy to see why people run them in their foot oriented lists. (add the baron to them and give them stealth, make him leave the group the turn you charge of course)

I imagine in a foot DE, that the beasts act as how the tau wished the kroot acted. A great screening element and counter charge unit (kroot fail in the counter charge too often because of lack of durability/killing power)

 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Buffo you might have 34 darklight weapons in your army, but will they all be abel to hit your oponent? The missile\las\autocannon spam is just teerible since they have a range of 48" while ouer best lance has a range of 36. With a knowledge of that my oponent will deploy as far behind as pissible. (True, my last games have ONLY been with the circle deployment across the quarter table edges, so he has a looong way back to deploy.)

As for the fotslogging list I thik it would realy die to the whirldwind. It is very hard to reach all the way back to the whirldwind.

The beastmaster is exelent. 1 beast trainer + 2 razorwing flocks you have 12 S3 rending attacks on the 12" charge at I5 for 42 points. Compare that to genestealers where you get 9 S4 rending attacks on the charge for 42. True genestealers can outflank (witch can be bad depending on the table) but the beast masters are beasts. And they have more wounds and you can get invunerable saves in there as well. Throw in the beast trainer with 2 (weak attacks) and if need be he can shoot 2 18" poison 4+ attacks. (I would dis advice against against taking only beast handler, here helions would be better.)

However all that is nice. But I still find it hard taking skimmers\landspeeders and dreadnoughts in close combat and shooting them with poison weaponds. I need more dark lances. And perhaps heatlances or haywire rifles.


***

It seems to me (like pepper pointed out) that the beastmaster is very good. It seems like the minimum is 3 beast handlers and 6 razorflocks for the 36 str 3 rending attacks on the charge. It will probably do vs moast tanks even when they drive (on an average 6 hits and on average 1 glansing\penetrating hit after that) I can glanse a dreadnought to death, although not ideal. The only thing I am afarid of is the blood angel and the iron clad dreadnought but hopefully I can shoot them with the lances.

Those 3 beast handlers come down to 126 points. I can lose 2 of the 3 beasthandlers to instant death. I am not shure what is better, adding 2 aditonal razorwing handlers for another 84 points (I can cost losing 4 handlers and some of the razorwing flocks) or I can get the invunerable save for 72 per handler. But the invunerable saves would only really be usefull if I start on the tabletopp. In the spirit of the 19" to 24" charge range out of a WWP I think 4 razorwing flock handlers for 168 points would be good in the spirit of MSU, since they are an absolute nightmare.

I can drop a WWP out of a harlequin squad in round one, and in round 2 a venom droping and disembarking would make another very good WWP, now I have 24" charge range out of both of them, that sounds very hard on my oponent. :-) Perhaps then also talloses with eather melta lances or haywire guns would be very good. :-)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/26 18:18:30


   
Made in us
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer




You'll just FnP in cover until you've got something in a spot to shoot the whirlwhind, that's not really an existential threat to the list.

After reading the thread I would recommend finding room in either one of the TB squads or the scourge for a BM unit, looking back at them (especially with the wound allocation shenanigans) they seem really good.

BAMF 
   
Made in us
Charing Cold One Knight




Lafayette, IN

MikeMcSomething wrote:You'll just FnP in cover until you've got something in a spot to shoot the whirlwhind, that's not really an existential threat to the list.

After reading the thread I would recommend finding room in either one of the TB squads or the scourge for a BM unit, looking back at them (especially with the wound allocation shenanigans) they seem really good.


Whirl winds have ignore cover shots. The real reason why they aren't a threat is they aren't taken by most people anymore (with good reason).

 
   
Made in us
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer




I basically knew as I typed that post that if I didn't include (even though they will probably shoot the incendiary rounds at you you will have FNP anyway and not really care) that the next post would be someone stating that whirlwinds can shoot ignore cover shots.

Nerd rage aside they aren't really a big deal. Put the haemoncs in the big units and the WW won't do enough damage before you explode it. And like you said in the metagame it's probably irrelevant anyway because there are far better choices for the points/FC slot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/28 03:34:27


BAMF 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: