1k Dark Eldar

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**XxRVNGRDxX**

So I am breaking out the Dark Eldar for their first time since the codex has come out. I've only had the codex for a few days and really haven't given it a full read through, but I have a game scheduled for Tuesday. So here is my first shot at a NEW dark eldar list. Please let me know what you guys think.

Here's what I got down on paper. Any comments or suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

headquarters:
baron sathonyx = 105

elite:
mandrakes (3) = 45

troops:
hellions (10), helliarch, agonizer = 185

kabalite warriors (10), dark lance, raider = 175

kabalite warriors (10), dark lance, raider = 175

heavy support:
ravager = 105

ravager = 105

ravager = 105

grand total = 1000pts

The mandrakes are there just as a distraction...I know it looks like a waste of 45 points. I just haven't gone through the codex enough to see where else to throw the points.

**Perkustin**

I think it's a good, balanced, list, if i didnt like the models/ideas of certain units i would definately do a similar list. Seeing as you've got a big troop contingent and plenty of lances there's nothing wrong with spending the spare points on whatever.

**kenshin620**

Maybe swap dark lances for blasters to stay mobile and then give either 2 ravagers or raiders flickerfield. Thats just me nickpicking though. Perhaps drop the mandrakes for flickerfields?

**XxRVNGRDxX**

Yeah, I was thinking about the flickerfields. I may actually do that. No sense in giving up more KP's than I have to with those mandrakes.

**Ckilleen**

Maybe drop one squad of warriors and add a squad of wychs?

**Thor665**

XxRVNGRDxX wrote:headquarters:
baron sathonyx = 105

I submit that by taking him you're angling for more of a fun build than a pure competitive one. But he's not that bad.

elite:
mandrakes (3) = 45

Erk.

3 Mandrakes are going to accomplish what? They are an assault unit that can barely beat up a buncha grots, in my opinion you're just throwing away points here. I'll give you some point saving suggestions deeper in and probably these 45 points can go to something more useful for you.

troops:
hellions (10), helliarch, agonizer = 185

If you're going with Sathonyx this is indeed probably the way to go.

kabalite warriors (10), dark lance, raider = 175

kabalite warriors (10), dark lance, raider = 175

You plan to have 3 Ravagers and you think you need even more lance spam at 1000 points? You're putting a lot of pressure on the Hellions to deal with all troops. I would take these squads, drop them down to five man squads, take a Blaster, and put them in a Venom instead of a Raider (and upgrade that Venom to have an extra Splinter Cannon). Total build cost will save you 100 points if you do it to both units (which, if you drop the Mandrakes, would give you 145 points to take an alternate unit - which could even buy you 5 Wyches w. Agoniser in a Raider or Venom with a couple points to spare for splinter cannon upgrade to the Venom or something)

What you lose by doing this - 4 dark lances.
What you gain - 2 units capable of moving 12" and putting 12 poison shots into anyone foolish enough to not be inside a vehicle (and those your Ravagers should be blowing up). If you move only 6" you can then use possibly 20 poisoned shots as well as an 18" range lance that you can use to shoot up any vehicles your Ravagers aren't dealing with or to shoot at units like Termies or Nobz or something else that can absorb lesser gunfire.

So you maintain some anti-tank, and gain significant speed and anti-infantry options - plus Venoms are tougher to kill than Raiders, and this doesn't even take into account the possible addition of an entire extra unit to your army, that would be much more dangerous. The only reason for the Lance Warrior squads is i you know your opponent is likely bringing a pure mech force, and even then I submit the suggestions I provided will do about as well and will overall be a better rounded army as well.

I've no issues with you taking three Ravagers - Ravagers are awesome.

Hope those thoughts help,
Thor.

**XxRVNGRDxX**

Yea my game Tuesday is just for fun. I haven't played in a few months due to work and I figured why not play the new DE codex I've been waiting years and years for.

I considered running just a generic build but also wanted to see what other options I could throw in, thats why I chose Baron Sathonyx.

Here is something I was thinking about Let me know what you think.

1k dark eldar

headquarters:
baron sathonyx = 105

troops:
hellions (10), helliarch, agonizer = 185

kabalite warriors (10), blaster, splinter cannon, raider, disintegrator cannon = 175

kabalite warriors (10), blaster, splinter cannon, raider, disintegrator cannon = 175

heavy support:
ravager, flickerfield = 115

ravager, flickerfield = 115

ravager, flickerfield = 115

grand total = 1000pts

I know its not using venoms or wyches but it did add in more anti-troop killing power and it can support the hellions.

**Thor665**

Let me assure you there is no requirement to take Venoms or Wyches to make a good DE list. (they just make optimizing it easier

)

I really like the new list, because I'm a mark for Gunboats if nothing else. Depending on what sort of lists your opponent fields I might leave the Raiders as lances instead of dissies, but that is a list where everything has a clear purpose and is good at killing more than one thing. I think it will do very well in friendly games.

**vishra**

Baron Sathonyx is usable in a competitive list. Last time I checked, being abled to optionally deepstrike a troop choice that is jump infantry and is massively good anti-infantry is pretty competitive :p

Not a bad list. With the flickerfield additions, I really can't see anything I would change. Hope you post a batrep, curious to see how this does

**Thor665**

vishra wrote:Baron Sathonyx is usable in a competitive list. Last time I checked, being abled to optionally deepstrike a troop choice that is jump infantry and is massively good anti-infantry is pretty competitive :p

I think you're mistaking what I mean when I say competitive. I mean competitive at tournaments where all the players have built lists with aggressive intent to win. If I take an aggressive tournament style 1000 point army from pretty much any codex I would feel very comfortable dealing with a DE army built around the Baron. I don't mean to imply he's total gak and you can't win with him, I just mean he's more of a fun list build than a competitive one in that sense. I also disagree that Hellions are massively good anti-infantry. They're good anti-infantry. A bunch of charging assault marines is just as good, and arguably better (less initiative but better toughness, leadership and much better armor - that would actually be interesting to see some mathhammer on)

Also, I don't think the Baron does anything for deep strike - he does grant stealth and deployment boosts and some other stuff though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
This got me curious, so I decided to do the maths;

205 points
9 Assault Marines w. bolt pistol + chainsword
1 Sarge w. bolt pistol + power weapon (I could also do calculations for a fist I suppose, though to keep the points fair I might drop a regular marine, we'll presume he died from shooting)

vs.

201 points
10 Hellions w. Hellglaive
1 Helliarch w. Agoniser (argueably 20 points more expensive for the PGL to help allow them to assault into cover freely, but that's not really germaine one way or the other)

Spoiler:

Looks like as long as they get the charge Hellions beat a roughly like points value of assault marines every time as long as their initiative will remain higher (which does bring the PGL into it, which actually does throw off the points value but I don't feel like going through and recalculating for -1 Hellion, probably all it means is the two grind matchups would become Marine victories). I suspect in at least the two grinding matchups (Hellions w. +1 Str and Hellions w. assault speed advantage) that if Marines got the charge they would win, and probably with a Marine charge a lot of the Hellion victories become closer to grind out victories. So, point for point Hellions are probably a superior assault unit to assault marines, but not by much. Maybe if I get really stupid I might toy out the numbers vs. a like pile of Orks, (26 Boyz and Nob w. Klaw and bosspole - 202 points) but I don't feel like giving that a go right now.

**XxRVNGRDxX**

Thank you Thor for the math-hammer. Its nice to see the figures. I agree that Baron isn't the most highly competitive character in the DE codex, but he does have his uses. Like I said, its a friendly game and you seem to understand that quite well. Thanks for all the comments. I'll let you all know how the game goes Tuesday.

**vishra**

Nice mathhammering, much appreciative to see

The only thing I can say that may change this is the shooting. A squad of ten Hellions is also going to get to shoot into the assault with 20 poisoned shots, hitting on 3+ and wounding on 4+.

So squad: 20 attacks,13.32222 hit, 6.6666 wound (round to 7) Marines save 4.44, so 2.22 dead Marines.

I know you'll probably say that if Hellions get to shoot, so do the Marines, but this is purely on mathhammer and the flex given with the 12' movement of Hellions and Fleet. My meaning behind them being massively good anti-infatry is because while they are completely keyed to being anti-infantry, they have a much better duality than, say, Wyches, since they also have an 18" poisoned shot.

Also, my deepstrike comment was because they are Jump Infantry, and all Jump Infantry can Deepstrike upon deployment if they so choose.

**Thor665**

Yeah, Jump Infantry can deep strike - I thought you meant the Baron helped it somehow.

I didn't do the shooting simply because I gave them the charge via fleet, which the Marines lack. They might have the ability to shoot the Marines, or they might not. Just as a consideration;

Hellions shoot Marines: 22 shots, 11 hit, 5.5 wound, 3.6 saved = 1.8 dead Marines. With 2 kills this would be a solid shift in Hellions favor on assault and would probably save them from the two grind results.

Marines shoot Hellions: 10 shots, 5 hit, 3.33 wound = 3.33 dead Hellions. I suspect on an assault after that the Marines would wipe the Hellions. (this presumes they don't have FNP, of course, wherein I think the Hellions would probably still win since then they'd only lose 1-2 Hellions on average).

If shooting might deny them the charge the Hellions are much better off going for the assured charge as a Marine round of shooting + charge would be death for 5/6ths of all Hellion squads of equivalent point cost.