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Suppose I have a landspeeder & need to move 12" to mitigate the damage from an assault (Hit on 6's).

Being a fast vehicle I can fire the H. Bolter + the typhoon ML using frag (Defensive). My friend had his rhino exposed so I figured why not. I essentially wrecked it (wep destroyed + immoblie) then elected to shoot the frag missiles at it. Being AV 11 I know I couldn't hurt it but there was a squad next to it & I was hoping to scatter on to them.
He said since I couldn't hurt the vehicle I couldn't fire. I argued that there is nothing stopping you from firing if you can't hurt the enemy, it's usually just stupid. We eventually flipped a coin but what is the actual ruling?

I don't see any prohibition.

The closest thing I can find is the first paragraph on page 60, but that looks more like a fluff explanation for what squadmembers who can't hurt the target vehicle might be doing, not a rule forbidding them to fire.

you can fire, doesnt matter if it can hurt it or not.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Suppose I have a landspeeder & need to move 12" to mitigate the damage from an assault (Hit on 6's).

Being a fast vehicle I can fire the H. Bolter + the typhoon ML using frag (Defensive). My friend had his rhino exposed so I figured why not. I essentially wrecked it (wep destroyed + immoblie) then elected to shoot the frag missiles at it. Being AV 11 I know I couldn't hurt it but there was a squad next to it & I was hoping to scatter on to them.
He said since I couldn't hurt the vehicle I couldn't fire. I argued that there is nothing stopping you from firing if you can't hurt the enemy, it's usually just stupid. We eventually flipped a coin but what is the actual ruling?

There is no rule stating that you need need a potential to glance/wound to shoot at a vehicle. You may fire a lasgun at a Land raider if you really want to. A popular tactic is firing a flamer at a vehicle if the vehicle must be the primary target, but still hitting infantry in the way (the template must cover as much of the vehicle as possible). Again, there is no rule stating against this.

You legally could not have fired the frags though. The top of page 18 states: "When a unit fires, all of its weapons are fired simultaneously". Since you already rolled hit, pen and damage on the heavy bolter, you cannot then choose to fire frags based on the outcome of the heavy bolter. You must declare what you are firing and what type of ammunition is used before any dice are rolled.

This is nit-picking, but still the rules I do not understand why you didn't just fire Krak missiles at it in the first place (statistically a greater chance to penetrate the rhino).

No where does it say you have to be able to hurt it to roll shots fired at it. It's just stupid to roll to hit and to pen shots against a vehicle when there is nothing that could possibly happen as a result. However, you can very well fire a weapon at a vehicle that has 0 chance of hurting it on the off chance that it might scatter onto a nearby squad, or (in the case of the flamer template) to toast some infantry who just so HAPPEN to be in the way.

I have used the above tactic to great effect with Banewolves and Marines charging out of Land Raiders.

When firing blast tempates at vehicles you may place the hole over any part of the vehicle, often allowing you to overlap nearby infantry. Vindicators can use this to great effect. There is certainly nothing stopping you from firing a weapon that cannot hurt the target. Why, you could even rapid-fire Plasmaguns at a Land Raider if for some bizarre reason you wanted to help kill them off with Gets Hot!

yup, agreed with above. the ability to shoot *effectively* is not a requirement for shooting. just be glad you're not playing in 3rd edition with guess range weapons... when someone would "fire" at a unit across the board but guess 14" to hit a close combat that they couldn't officially aim at (like a single guardsmen surrounded by 8 khorne bezerkers). the only thing stopping them was sportmanship, not the rules, lol.

You can fire at targets you cant hurt.

Unfortunately in the OP's case - he was firing at a wrecked rhino.

Once its wrecked its now a piece of terrain.

Stubby wrote:You can fire at targets you cant hurt.

Unfortunately in the OP's case - he was firing at a wrecked rhino.

Once its wrecked its now a piece of terrain.

Nope. He's firing weapons from the same unit. so it's not wrecked yet, not until the unit finishes it's firing and then all hits against the vehicle are resolved.

Just remember that if the target is out of range, the weapon misses automaticly. This comes up when you have a squad of guys standing in front of a heavy flamer. The tank cannot choose to fire at a distant target and accidentally hit the squad standing there.

Which is why it's quite problematic to pull off, but extremely nice if it does work.

It doesn't help that the OP is making a misleading statement, calling an immobilized and weaponless rhino "essentially wrecked" when wrecked is a very specific term that would have disallowed any shooting at the vehicle.

There's a world of difference between an immobilized and weaponless rhino (or any other vehicle in the same situation) and a wreck, more so for the rhino since rhino's have the commonly forgotten Repair rule.

Sequence is important, as other people pointed out. The player controlling the Typhoon would have to choose Frag or Krak before rolling to hit with the HB. Then all hits are resolved, then all penetration & wound rolls.